[pkpjamestown]

Are the Iraqi Kurds, Iraqis?

Are the Turkish Kurds, Turks?

Are the Turks, Iraqis?

[MadIvan]

We ought to tell the Turks, "sod off" - if the Iraqis fear the Kurds, so much the better. Turkey lost its say when it refused to allow American troops to open a second front from the north.

Regards, Ivan

[pkpjamestown]

Dervis Warns of Social Outburst

Ankara, TURKEY, March 30, 2003 - Pointing out that Turkey’s biggest problem was “social maintenance” rather than maintaining loans, Republican People’s Party (CHP) deputy from Istanbul Kemal Dervis said: “We have reached the limit. We need to join hands and try to protect Turkey from a social outburst.”

This was Dervis’s first appearance in Parliament in the capacity of an elected official. Taking the rostrum to convey his party’s position during the final discussions of the 2003 budget bill, Dervis warned against a “social outburst.” He said that the government should avoid partisanship in public administration and added that structural reforms were necessary for a solution to the country’s economic problems. Beginning his speech by stating that Turkey’s resources were adequate, Dervis reminded his audience that he had served as the minister for the economy “at a difficult time for the country” in March of 2001. “The economy had stopped, we had problems finding credit and the state was afraid to pay salaries. The mission of politicians is to join hands and prevent the country from falling into such a position,” he said.

Mehmet Acikalin, another deputy from Istanbul for the Justice and Development Party (AKP), expressed his party’s opinion, saying, “With this budget, brave steps are being taken in terms of accounting and transparency.”

Suleyman Kurt / Ankara / TURKEY

http://www.zaman.org/default.php?kn=1389

[Paradox]

The same Iraqi troops that have displayed such strong resistance to the coalition forces in the south of the country have reportedly shied away from encounters with the Kurdish peshmerga in the north and retreated to their lines around the northern Iraqi city of Kirkuk.

Thats because the know that if the Kurds get them, they will be treated ALOT differently than if they were captured by the other coalition forces..

[Pearls Before Swine]

Maybe the reason for the retreat is strategic. I doubt it has anything to do with the fact that the Iraqis hate the Kurds in the North less than the USA in the south and around Baghdad.

If a gas counterattack lies in the future, a pullback could be strategic. I would expect the Kurds to be less well equipped to deal with it than the USMC.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

This has to be keeping the thinking heads at the White House awake at night!

OFFICIAL BUMP(TOPIC)LIST

[PISANO]

They are retreating because I am sure the TURKS don't give a damn about civilian casualties like our troops do.

[EternalHope]

Personally, I no longer give a rats @$$ what the Turks think.

Bring it on, Turkeys.

[Southack]

"Are the Iraqi Kurds, Iraqis? Are the Turkish Kurds, Turks?"

The Kurds have their own country, but it isn't "internationally recognized", so it doesn't show up on any maps. Militarily and politically, however, the Kurds control a fair-sized geographic slice of Turkey and Iraq.

Interestingly, the Kurds hate both the Turks and the Iraqis.

Moreover, the Kurds want to become internationally recognized. To do so would give them a seat at the UN, the right to various IMF/worldbank aid, the right to sell oil without paying bribes to Turks or Iraqis, and other major perks.

So is it any surprise that the Kurds are welcoming American troops with open arms as well as willing volunteers ready to fight the Iraqis?

Diplomatic recognition for the Kurds by the U.S. and UK would instantly give the Kurds what they have been fighting for over the past century or more. Furthermore, Kurdish fighting might expand the defacto border of the Kurds' territory into some prominent, oil-rich land in what we currently call Northern Iraq.

...And such "recognition" would not be out of the question if the Kurds were to win a single major battle for a city such as Tikrut or Mosul or Kirkut.

In contrast, Turkey followed the UN's path into irrelevancy. Had Turkey played ball with us, they could have secured a promise to not diplomatically recognize the Kurds' country.

However, as things stand today, there is no longer any such guarantee of our future diplomatic behavior.

Thus, Turkey and Iraq now both stand to potentially lose territory (from their official international borders, at least) to the Kurds in this war.

Let's hope that Turkey considers the promises made to them by France (in exchange for complicating the U.S. battle-plan) to be worth this new potential development...

[McGavin999]

The Turks lost any say in the matter when they decided to refuse to allow our troops to enter into Iraq through Turkey. I've lost all respect for them.

[truth_seeker]

"Turkey has warned that it will intervene in northern Iraq in the event that the Kurdish peshmerga enter Mosul and Kirkuk."

Aren't the Kurds herein mentioned, Iraqi citizens? Aren't they effectively a militia force, warring against the forces of their oppressing dictator?

That being so, I'd classify their actions to be in alliance with the US led coalition, which has stated objective to keep intact Iraq's territorial integrity (keep present national borders).

If Turkey crosses over the border, to interfere, it is going against the US led coalition's objectives.

It would make matters very complex, to say the least. I cannot see a case for Turkey having ANY claim over Kirkuk, for it is part of Iraq.

Is Turkey playing poker with the Texan? Others have played, and lost.

[WaterDragon]

We might have been able to do as the Turks requested IF they had allowed us to move troops into northern Iraq from Turkey. The Turks have damaged their standing badly. Rumsfield doesn't want to see them go down economically, and he's right, though I would shed no tears for the Turks.

[cookcounty]

Saddam may want the Turks to come in at this point, just to cause confusion for US/UK.

[John123]

There are many ethnic Turks living in those two cities. I think Turkey is worried about a massacre on the hands of the Kurds.

This is one of my primary concerns after we oust Saddam's regime. Bloodletting and revenge.