Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Mel's Jesus not everybody's messiah
Sydney Morning Herald ^ | April 1 2003 | By Chris McGillion

Posted on 03/31/2003 5:28:35 AM PST by dead

Movie makers know that a dose of pre-release controversy can work wonders for their films at the box office. But even such modern marketing techniques don't quite explain the flak Mel Gibson is drawing over the film he is making based on the final hours in the life of Jesus.

Called The Passion, the movie has been directed, co-written, and largely privately financed by Gibson who says it will be an authentic - and graphic - presentation of the gospel story even to the point of having the actors speak exclusively in Latin and Aramaic.

The Passion has been panned in advance by some critics who say the story has been done to death. Some reports have linked it to Gibson's religious beliefs with one scathing attack recently suggesting he is peddling an outmoded theology favoured by "conspiracy-minded Catholics, mystics, monarchists and disaffected conservatives".

The film has also raised concerns among Jewish groups who fear it will revive the charge that Jews are collectively responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus.

Gibson went so far as to claim, in a March 14 interview with an American Catholic cable network, that "the other world" was "warring" with him to prevent his retelling how Jesus died a horrible death for the sake of humanity.

The real war Gibson has joined, however, is a culture war within the Catholic Church which is spilling across the frontiers of inter-religious dialogue.

Gibson has never made a secret of his Catholicism or of the particular variety of the faith with which he feels comfortable. This is a traditionalist Catholicism that is deeply suspicious of the changes brought about in the church by the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s and determined to retrieve a sense of its own separateness from the world.

He was quoted in Time magazine in January as arguing that Vatican II had "corrupted" the church.

"Look at the fruits," Gibson had said, "dwindling numbers and pedophilia."

This ignores the fact that attendance levels at Mass now are about what they were a century ago (high attendance levels in the decades before 1960 were the anomaly), that many cases of clerical sexual abuse go back well beyond the past 40 years, and that it was Vatican II which encouraged Catholics of Gibson's generation to take the study of the Bible seriously.

Gibson is also a devotee of the Latin Mass - he is said to attend daily in his private chapel - which Vatican II replaced by Mass celebrated in the vernacular.

Vatican II reasoned that the adoption of Latin as the universal language of the church in the fourth century was merely a concession to the times and that by conducting Mass in the language of the participants they could take a more active part in the ceremony.

But active involvement brings with it differences of opinion and outlook. It was such differences, taken to their extreme by Protestant reformers and also by those Catholics who sought to counter the Reformation, that led to the Council of Trent in the 16th century. The council sought to impose order amid the chaos by, among other things, standardising the Mass. This became known as the Tridentine Rite, commonly referred to as the Old Latin Mass.

Among traditionalists the popularity of this Mass is essentially an expression of support for the type of church that produced it - one that placed a premium on order, stability and certainty rather than innovation, participation and inclusiveness. Its appeal has very little to do with any inherent beauty associated with the Latin language.

This explains why clerics such as Bishop Daniel Dolan, who ministers to traditionalist Catholics in Cincinnati, told The New York Times recently that for Gibson "to put the weight of his Hollywood celebrity behind the truth that the whole modern church structure is rotten to the core is excellent". (Dolan was ordained by a French archbishop who broke with Rome over Vatican II and was later excommunicated.)

The symbolic importance of the Latin Mass also explains why Gibson, and by extension the publicity for his views The Passion will attract, draws criticism from mainstream Catholics and from non-Catholics who are thankful that the church finally embraced the modern world and all its complexity in the 1960s.

The moral for Gibson is obvious: if you are going to be a combatant, expect to be shot at from time to time.

The message for everyone else is simple: celebrities are entitled to their opinions but, for all the influence they wield, their views are no more valid than anybody else's.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS:
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-67 next last
To: kitkat
Catholics got an English Mass and the Protestants got all the good hymns. LOL!

It wasn't like they won them in a lottery, they wrote the hymns.

21 posted on 03/31/2003 6:32:21 AM PST by TightSqueeze (From the Department of Homeland Security, sponsors of Liberty-Lite, Less Freedom! / Red Tape!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

To: MrLeRoy
***What is your source for these claims?***

My dear MrLeRoy, I am as ancient as the pyramids. LOL! I WAS THERE. I saw it first hand. I experienced it. I raised kids starting in the fifties.

Shortly after WWII, the Bishop purchased land in the suburbs. People thought he was crazy. "What do we need land way out there for?" was the common refraiin. That land was what became MY parish. The Bishop was far sighted. But not far sighted enough. My kids were in classes with 60+ students in the first grade. There was no land left to build another Catholic church in that particular suburb. Eventually, I had to transfer my children to public school.

When I took them to the first English Mass, I was thrilled at how easy it was for them to understand the meaning of the service.

Immediately after WWII, my father spoke to our local pastor, and suggested that he had better start thinking about expanding the school to accommodate all the children who would be born during what eventually came to be known as the Baby Boomer generation. The pastor, a Godly man, said he saw no reason to expand the school.

Years later, my husband and I wanted to buy a house in that neighborhood, but did not because the school was unable to take our children as students.





23 posted on 03/31/2003 6:44:05 AM PST by kitkat (HANDYMAN'S SPECIAL: First Avenue, NYC, former site of the U.N.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: kitkat
I dunno ... at least at my parish, we are singing such good old Protestant super hits : "Old Rugged Cross", "How Can I Keep from Singing", "Amazing Grace" . Lets rock - AMEN !
24 posted on 03/31/2003 6:44:13 AM PST by Seajay (Ordo e Progresso)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: kitkat
With all due respect, your personal experiences are less than definitive as to what was happening nationwide.
25 posted on 03/31/2003 6:46:20 AM PST by MrLeRoy ("That government is best which governs least.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: dead
The Passion has been panned in advance by some critics who say the story has been done to death.


The centerpiece of Christianity has been "done to death?"
What are these, freaks? The only valid art depicting Christ must be transgressive in nature? Perhaps as a sex-addicted, porn using drug addict?

There is something so self-involved about that statement, and soooo disrespectful.
26 posted on 03/31/2003 6:55:33 AM PST by mlmr
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dead
I'm not "conspiracy-minded", but I am a mystical, monarchist and disaffected conservative Catholic -- and I cannot wait to see this film. Mr. Gibson is right to claim that "the other world" was "warring" with him to prevent his retelling how Jesus died a horrible death for the sake of humanity. It obviously is; the demonic powers cringe at the Holy Name -- which is all the more reason to shout it out loud in every medium.

As a traditionalist Catholic deeply suspicious of the changes brought about in the church by the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s, I agree with Mr. Gibson that our current problems with "dwindling numbers and pedophilia" can be traced to the Vatican II era -- not the the teachings of the Council itself, but to the spirit of accommodation with the world so rampant in the 1960s that accompanied it. The proof is in the pudding: parishes and dioceses that cling to the authentic and ancient practice of the Faith are thriving, while those that offer worshippers the thin gruel of quasi-Protestant practices are losing members like sieves. In our parish, all three of our Sunday masses are packed (SRO on holidays) and even our Thursday morning mass is respectably attended. Why? Because Our Lord is adored there: His sanctuary is front and center, His Body and Blood are respected (communion on the tongue only from the hands of our priest while kneeling at an altar rail), and we have a proper crucifix (carried by an altar BOY) -- not a "ressufix" or Protestant cross -- displayed prominently among the beautiful statues, censers, and stained glass of our modest but dignfied church.

When it comes to religious faith, people want the Real Thing. Offer it to them and they will come. If this film offers viewers a glimpse of the real Jesus and his incomparable and saving sacrifice, it will succeed -- no matter how many detractors Hell sends against it. Kudos to Mr. Gibson for making his film his way.

27 posted on 03/31/2003 6:56:22 AM PST by B-Chan (Ne messez pas avec le Texas)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: toddst
Frankly, I have doubts about the film. This business of the film being in Latin and Aramaic with no subtitles seems like a pointless stunt. How is "the message" going to reach people when they don't know what is being said?
28 posted on 03/31/2003 6:56:49 AM PST by Sans-Culotte
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: dead
The Passion has been panned in advance by some critics who say the story has been done to death.

What can you say?

And for the analysts:

This ignores the fact that attendance levels at Mass now are about what they were a century ago (high attendance levels in the decades before 1960 were the anomaly)

A century ago. Hilarious.

29 posted on 03/31/2003 6:56:58 AM PST by monkey
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MrLeRoy
***With all due respect, your personal experiences are less than definitive as to what was happening nationwide.***

With all due respect, my personal experiences took place in a largely Catholic area. (Make that county) What would have happened in other areas of the country where there were few Catholics? Poorer parishes could not afford to build new schools.







30 posted on 03/31/2003 7:13:28 AM PST by kitkat (HANDYMAN'S SPECIAL: First Avenue, NYC, former site of the U.N.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: dead
The film has also raised concerns among Jewish groups who fear it will revive the charge that Jews are collectively responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus

Jesus was a Jew, his people were Jews, and he died for the Jews. SO WHY THE JEWS SHOULD FEAR. If God wanted Jesus to be someone else, Jesus would have been Roman, or Greek, or Egyptian or any other nationalities, but not, God wanted his Son to be what God felled himself to be.

Being a Catholic doesn't mean holding a sward but a cross.

Let Jesus rest in peace, so humanity can go on living in peace.

As a Catholic I am holding Jesus Heart.

31 posted on 03/31/2003 7:15:37 AM PST by Right to be Wrong
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: monkey
The Passion has been panned in advance by some critics who say the story has been done to death.

Seriously, for every film on Christ, there are 50 on prostitute murders. For every film on Christ, there are a hundred films on adulterous affairs. For every film on Christ, there are hundreds of films on boy meets girl. Yet, they don't use the phrase, "done to death" when another romance or murder film is made. Pure hypocrisy.

32 posted on 03/31/2003 7:19:23 AM PST by aimhigh
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: monkey
***The Passion has been panned in advance by some critics who say the story has been done to death. ***

That particular statement in the article surely grabbed my attention, also.

Was the writer making a comparison between a fictitious story and an historic event? It sounds to me as though that was his intention.
33 posted on 03/31/2003 7:19:30 AM PST by kitkat (HANDYMAN'S SPECIAL: First Avenue, NYC, former site of the U.N.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: txzman
It was ugly on both sides, that is a well known fact. It doesn't help when one acts like the violence and un-Christian acts only went one way. We had "Bloody" Mary I, in terms of religious charity and tolerance, Elizabeth I actually wasn't much better (though this is one Catholic who probably would have supported Elizabeth out of nationalistic reasons). There is blood on all sides, and that is truly regretable. God Bless
34 posted on 03/31/2003 7:23:25 AM PST by StAthanasiustheGreat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: SoothingDave
***Those who produced the present English-language texts for the Mass did a horribly unfaithful job of translating the Latin. ***

Dave, I'm confused. I had twelve years of teaching at Catholic schools. I learned the Mass thoroughly and haven't noticed any mistakes in the English Mass.

Would you be good enough to point them out to me? I would appreciate it.
35 posted on 03/31/2003 7:23:50 AM PST by kitkat (HANDYMAN'S SPECIAL: First Avenue, NYC, former site of the U.N.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: dead

even to the point of having the actors speak exclusively in Latin and Aramaic.

Oh boy. Must not have been room for the language of the Apostles or of Christ. Greek must have been too minor to deal with. I like Gibson; but, If this is what is considered authentic, I may have to watch it with a barf bag in tow.

36 posted on 03/31/2003 7:24:31 AM PST by Havoc (Excersize your iq muscles, read Coulter)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dead
I really wish these supposed Roman Catholic authors of these hit pieces would actually read the documents of Vatican II. No where in it does it eliminate the Tridentine or Latin Rite. If anyone actually took the time to read the documents of the council, one would find it was beautifully done and quite proper.

Gibson is a bit off base when he blames the current crisis on the council. Those evil bastards were around before Vatican II, and a case could be made that Vatican II was implemented to stop the current homosexual pederasty crisis.

Pax Christi.
37 posted on 03/31/2003 7:26:24 AM PST by matthew_the_brain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Seajay
Well I do admit that we get to sing, "Away in the Manger," one of the most beautiful hymns in existence.

But I sure would like to have the hymns you mentioned. Can I visit?
38 posted on 03/31/2003 7:26:49 AM PST by kitkat (HANDYMAN'S SPECIAL: First Avenue, NYC, former site of the U.N.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: kitkat
my personal experiences took place in a largely Catholic area

A particular area with a particular bishop who was "not far sighted enough." No evidence there that all bishops nationwide had that failing.

39 posted on 03/31/2003 7:34:13 AM PST by MrLeRoy ("That government is best which governs least.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: kitkat
Dave, I'm confused. I had twelve years of teaching at Catholic schools. I learned the Mass thoroughly and haven't noticed any mistakes in the English Mass. Would you be good enough to point them out to me? I would appreciate it.

Check out Fr. Z at What Does the Prayer Really Say?

He has done this weekly column for the last few years, covering the official prayers in the Mass for each week (The first year he did the opening prayer, the second the "prayer over the gifts." This year he is doing the post-communion prayer.) It is quite clear that much is lacking in the official translations, especially where ideas of grace or sacrifice are encountered.

We deserve much better, more-faithful-to-the-text translations.

As an example, here is the last one given on the website, for the second Sunday of Lent:

LITERAL TRANSLATION: (done by Fr. Z)
As we are now grasping, O Lord, the glorious transforming sacrament,
we are busy offering thanks to you,
for you are granting us, placed here on earth,
to be participants of the heavenly mysteries now at this very moment.

ICEL (1973 translation of the 1970MR): (what we hear at Mass)
Lord,
we give thanks for these holy mysteries
which bring to us here on earth
a share in the life to come.

This is not a particularly egregious translation, the basic ideas are there. But still, a side-by-side comparison shows that we are not getting anywhere near the full ideas expressed in the Latin original of the prayer.

SD

40 posted on 03/31/2003 7:38:38 AM PST by SoothingDave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-67 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson