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Kurdish ploy brought early end to looting and violence
The Times ^ | April 12, 2003 | Anthony Loyd

Posted on 04/11/2003 4:29:07 PM PDT by MadIvan

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To: Trailerpark Badass
Just wait and see who gets the last laugh.
21 posted on 04/11/2003 5:05:45 PM PDT by Turk2 (Dulce bellum inexpertis)
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To: Turk2
puke puke puke

Ha ha ha yeah. You guys were wishing you would have an opportunity to gloat about how dumb the Kurds were, how they screwed everything up by taking Kirkuk and launching a wave of violence and disorder in the region. Too bad ya didn't get your way, huh?

22 posted on 04/11/2003 5:06:56 PM PDT by xm177e2 (Stalinists, Maoists, Ba'athists, Pacifists: Why are they always on the same side?)
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To: Turk2
Just wait and see who gets the last laugh

Like the Germans and the Russians, the Turks bet on the wrong horse.

23 posted on 04/11/2003 5:10:30 PM PDT by CharacterCounts
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To: MadIvan
"I doubt sincerely that Rumsfeld and President Bush were "duped"

I agree and am glad to see the Kurds take the initiative. I'm sure that GW was and is well aware of the situation on the ground. As for the Turks,...put some ice on it.

24 posted on 04/11/2003 5:12:41 PM PDT by semaj
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To: MadIvan
I disagree with one aspect of this - I doubt sincerely that Rumsfeld and President Bush were "duped" - nothing is happening that they did not authorise. Still, clever of the Kurds, very clever indeed.

I expect that Bush and Co. have a much better grasp of Intel than anyone since Franklin and Churchill.

And Psyops.

So the people in Bhagdad (and some other places) looted.

This is allowable. It lets them blow off a little bit of that pent-up steam that the regime built up in them.

I have been talking to a Kurd (from Turkey) today. He is very cautious. He does not want a Turk backlash.

However, the fact is that the Coalition now has rights in the former Iraq.

If it was up to me I would call the lower two thirds of Iraq, Iraq.

The 'Northern No-Fly Zone' would be Kurdistan, on the sole condition that the Kurds go there, and not try to take anymore territory, if they did, MOAB.

25 posted on 04/11/2003 5:19:32 PM PDT by LibKill (Nuke Berlin! Better late than never.)
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To: Turk2
Welcome back. Good to read your upbeat replys.
26 posted on 04/11/2003 5:20:19 PM PDT by Amerigomag
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To: Trailerpark Badass
I like that Peshmerga headgear too - very rakish, and it looks like it could double as a blanket on cold nights.
27 posted on 04/11/2003 5:22:28 PM PDT by Argus
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To: Turk2
Just wait and see who gets the last laugh.

Unfortunately for you, it won't be Turkey.

puke puke puke

gobble gobble gobble

28 posted on 04/11/2003 5:23:41 PM PDT by laz17 (Socialism is the religion of the atheist.)
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To: Turk2
Just wait and see who gets the last laugh.

Well, since this is between the Turks and the Kurds, I hope y'all can become human enough to keep from butchering each other.

Or is your veiled threat directed at America?

29 posted on 04/11/2003 5:32:56 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: Argus
The Kurds seemed the most civilized of all parties in Iraq. That they are reviled and victimized by everybody else is proof of the old saying, "Let no good deed go unpunished."
30 posted on 04/11/2003 5:40:45 PM PDT by NoControllingLegalAuthority
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To: laz17
Just wait and see who gets the last laugh

Don't be so sure that what Turk2 was trying to convey does not have merit.

From my limited studies, 20th century Kurds have been described as secular anarchists. They are not tribal or even clanish but rather hold their loyalty to members of their immediate families. Because they were the outcasts of the region oft described as "Kurdistan" they have freqenlty resorted to theivery as a means of support. Their recent campaign in Turkey, to break the backs of their Turkish oppressors, has oft times victimized their own with a cruelty usually reserved for enemies.

If this group can mature along the way then all in the region are the better for it. If, absent the enviornment of oppression, they fall back to the historic behavior they have exhibited in Turkey, Iran and Iraq then Turk2 may be right.

31 posted on 04/11/2003 5:42:57 PM PDT by Amerigomag
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To: MadIvan
Thanks for the post, very good news in this article.
32 posted on 04/11/2003 5:49:35 PM PDT by Irish Eyes
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To: MadIvan
Ali Hussein Lafta, 21, exemplified the Kurds’ apparent laissez-faire attitude to recent history. A Shia soldier from Amarah in southern Iraq,

I don't think the Kurds and the Shiites have particularly bad feelings, historically speaking, between them. I predict the future government of Iraq will be a coalition between the Kurds and the Shiites, with the "rights" of the Sunni minority at least theoretically protected. We'll see I guess. If the Sunnis don't like that, they can move to Syria or Saudi Arabia.

33 posted on 04/11/2003 6:02:49 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: MadIvan
I am very willing to bet that the military is using the chaos to cover a few things. Chaos is our friend.
34 posted on 04/11/2003 6:06:19 PM PDT by longtermmemmory
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To: MadIvan
Still, clever of the Kurds, very clever indeed.

I am impressed with the Kurds. I believe they see their greatest potential in a unified civil Iraq. I believe they may prove themselves over time to be a strong, unifying force in the New Free Iraq and a key ally beyond the borders of the new republic.

Time will tell...

35 posted on 04/11/2003 6:09:24 PM PDT by antaresequity
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To: Amerigomag
The political group who committed the acts you discuss in Turkey was a Maoist terror group with ties to everyone from Albanians to the Sendero Luminiso in Peru.

They are a non-factor in current Kurdish politics in Iraq.

The Turks can complain all they want. I have no doubts the United States intends to maintain a military presence in the Kurdish north for the foreseeable future.

The Turks should be happy that the real owners of the Mosul fields might consider trading oil with them. If I were in charge of this thing, I'd give those genocidal bums a swift kick in the rear warning them that if they uppity regarding the Kurds again we'll dust off certain treaties that, although not followed, remain in effect.

You Turks know what I'm talking about. As do the Greeks, Kurds and Armenians, heh, heh, heh.

Oh yeah, just how much swag did your corrupt Assemblymen get from the Frogs to sell us Americans out? It better be good, because you blew getting those gas and oil pipelines repaired anytime soon because of their perfidy.
36 posted on 04/11/2003 6:09:55 PM PDT by lavrenti
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To: Amerigomag
If, absent the enviornment of oppression, they fall back to the historic behavior they have exhibited in Turkey, Iran and Iraq then

That implies that their is no environment of oppression for them in Turkey and Iran, which is clearly not the case. Some of them are pretty bad ass it's true, but then so were the likes of the "Swamp Fox", the Green Moutain Boys and others suffering under British (and New Yorker) oppression in the late 18th century. Oppression continued over generations bends peoples minds, and they can take some time to unbend, even after throwing off that oppression.

37 posted on 04/11/2003 6:10:21 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: Amerigomag
You may be correct, the Kurds could turn out to be a problem. If that's the case, Turkey won't be laughing.
38 posted on 04/11/2003 6:12:33 PM PDT by CharacterCounts
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To: MadIvan
We've been working with the Kurds for months. There has been training in how to forgive, the local mullahs and tribal leaders have been schooling the people on what is expected of them as responsible citizens and caring humanbeings. Looks like it worked.

Yesterday I read how the Kurds treated Iraqi POW's, with kindness and compassion, and I was so proud of them. These are a great people and they show that democracy CAN work in that part of the world.

39 posted on 04/11/2003 6:24:19 PM PDT by McGavin999
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To: CharacterCounts
Turkey won't be laughing.

You bet they won't.

Turkey's historic oppression of their ethnic minorities has much to do with the problem at hand.

Some on this forum, beyond ethnic Turks, have a great deal of trouble recognizing the acusations of genocide and ethnic cleansing lodged against the Turkish government by it's ethnic minorities.

40 posted on 04/11/2003 6:30:06 PM PDT by Amerigomag
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