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Wolfowitz in Skopje – What Next for Macedonia?
antiwar.com ^ | May 20, 2003 | Christopher Deliso

Posted on 05/20/2003 8:51:59 AM PDT by Destro

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To: inquest
IQ- stamp out what hop says, whatever supports his own position is valid, what we say is refuted as propoganda. Even the Euro Diplomat from UNMIK/Kosovo agrees with our side. I figured this guy would slam Serbia and their stance that led to the war. The bottle is clearer now and justification in the Serbs war on Terror is a day late though.
241 posted on 06/13/2003 5:01:45 PM PDT by PiP PiP Cherrio (Kosovo is Secure! -- www.pedalinpeace.org)
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To: Diocletian of Spalato
Remember, it aint over yet.

All offers given to the Croats were rejected, with the offer for Krajina Croatian autonomy still on the table. Serbs have you right where we want ya.

RSK will again be retained by the Serbs as history does show, in times of international conflict, Serbs do dominate the region militarily with the Croats playing both sides of the fences. The muslims always trying to exterminate all Infidels. History repeats itself in a cyclical wheel.

242 posted on 06/13/2003 5:08:42 PM PDT by PiP PiP Cherrio (Kosovo is Secure! -- www.pedalinpeace.org)
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To: PiP PiP Cherrio
Not gonna happen dude :)

First off, you guys are more concerned with Kosovo, and secondly the Croatian Serbs aren't stupid enough to get fooled again by Belgrade.

243 posted on 06/13/2003 5:13:55 PM PDT by Diocletian of Spalato
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To: Diocletian of Spalato
secondly the Croatian Serbs aren't stupid enough to get fooled again by Belgrade.

they got rid of Djindjic, ehh?..:)

244 posted on 06/13/2003 5:16:21 PM PDT by PiP PiP Cherrio (Kosovo is Secure! -- www.pedalinpeace.org)
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To: PiP PiP Cherrio
...and Djindjich got rid of Slobo :)
245 posted on 06/13/2003 5:19:27 PM PDT by Diocletian of Spalato
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To: Diocletian of Spalato
which DOS stooge is next?

I had a PiP call from an "Caller ID" block from a guy who wanted to know where Srpska Krajina was on the map, as it is not an "internationally recognized" entity. I love it when people from the academia world calls to question the Fire, I held my own quiete well after a bad first minute as he caught me off guard...:) Then a regroup as I had him rebut a long winded tale on the Hapsburg,etc...:) Then the debate went on...I call it a draw, then the phone went CLICK! from his end. He was a Doctor I believe.

246 posted on 06/13/2003 5:32:08 PM PDT by PiP PiP Cherrio (Kosovo is Secure! -- www.pedalinpeace.org)
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To: PiP PiP Cherrio
it might have been hoplite..it was nice to debate an academic type...
247 posted on 06/13/2003 5:34:44 PM PDT by PiP PiP Cherrio (Kosovo is Secure! -- www.pedalinpeace.org)
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To: Hoplite
Then what was Milosevic's inter-Yugoslav trade embargo against Slovenia in 1989 about?

What was the Yogurt revolution in Vojvodina?

What was the revocation of Kosovo's autonomy?

You're a little bit confused it seems. What has all this to do with the right to self-determination for the Krajina Serbs and the Bosnian Serbs? The fact that there were many difficulties in Yugoslavia during the 1980's does not make their claim to seccession, in response to Croatia's and Bosnia's seccession, invalid.

248 posted on 06/14/2003 12:05:29 AM PDT by DestroyEraseImprove
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To: Diocletian of Spalato
I'll play the secession game then.

If "Krajina" was allowed to secede, could Croats then secede from "Krajina"? Fair is fair.

No problem with me, as there shouldn't have been a problem for Herceg-Bosna to secede. Instead, the Croats choosed to ally themselves with the islamists in Bosnia. Would you agree, that Milosevic sold out the Krajina Serbs in the same sense Tudman sold out the Bosnian Croats? Trapped and imprisoned in a state they didn't and don't want to live.

249 posted on 06/14/2003 12:15:25 AM PDT by DestroyEraseImprove
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To: DestroyEraseImprove
The sellout was of the Posavina Croats.

The Croats of Herceg-Bosna are in better shape than the Serbs of Croatia living in Vojvodina.

And BTW, your guys allied with the Islamists while attacking Croatia in '91. You do remember the Muslim generals don't you? You do remember that Sefer Halilovic was the JNA boy bombing Zadar?

250 posted on 06/14/2003 9:07:07 AM PDT by Diocletian of Spalato
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To: DestroyEraseImprove
You're a little bit confused it seems. What has all this to do with the right to self-determination for the Krajina Serbs and the Bosnian Serbs? The fact that there were many difficulties in Yugoslavia during the 1980's does not make their claim to seccession, in response to Croatia's and Bosnia's seccession, invalid.

If you go by that, then you give up Kosovo.

So make your pick, Kosovo or "Krajina".

251 posted on 06/14/2003 9:08:08 AM PDT by Diocletian of Spalato
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To: DestroyEraseImprove
There was no 'problem' until these republics declared independence from Yugoslavia.

That was what I was responding to - you were saying the breakup of Yugoslavia was due to outsider's influence, when the problem was interethnic rivalries which nationalist politicians rode to power upon and then had to feed with Yugoslavia's blood.

Please note, on the issue of the Croatian and Bosnian Serbs secession, the Badinter commission ruled that the redrawing of borders to form the RSK and RS was invalid in the eyes of international law, as opposed to the republic borders, which, as Yugoslavia was ruled to have dissolved, were seen as valid. The subsequent ethnic cleansing which took place in both entities did nothing to help the Serb's position in the eyes of the world, DEI, and ruined any chance of either entitiy surviving in the long run.

252 posted on 06/14/2003 11:50:10 AM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
Which international law are you talking about in particular? What about the Helsinki Agreement? The RS was established and recognized in 1995 at Dayton and their claim to self-determination will come up again. Just apply the scenario Bosnia leaving Yugoslavia with RS leaving Bosnia.
253 posted on 06/14/2003 12:34:51 PM PDT by DestroyEraseImprove
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To: Diocletian of Spalato
Albanians were a minority not a Nation like Croats and Serbs in the former Yugoslavia. Your premise in comparing Kosovo and Krajina is intentionally wrong.

Read again:

their claim to seccession, in response to Croatia's and Bosnia's seccession

So tell me, when did Serbia leave the Yugoslav Federation, so that Kosovo could claim seccession from Serbia in response to that?

254 posted on 06/14/2003 12:45:01 PM PDT by DestroyEraseImprove
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To: Hoplite
Please note, on the issue of the Croatian and Bosnian Serbs secession, the Badinter commission ruled that the redrawing of borders to form the RSK and RS was invalid in the eyes of international law, as opposed to the republic borders, which, as Yugoslavia was ruled to have dissolved, were seen as valid.

Since when is the Badinter commission equal to international law? Who set it up and who is obliged to fulfil it's decission and under which law? What about the ICC and the US?

According to the Bosnian constitution, Bosnia's secession was illegal. Duh!? OK, you say Croatian and Bosnian Serbs secession, in response to Croatia's and Bosnia's illegal secession, was illegal. What if they would have demanded 'not to leave', that means to remain in Yugoslavia. That wouldn't have been a secession in the technical sense. The Bosnian and Croatian Serbs would have remained part of Yugoslavia in that case, as they have been for decades. No change of status quo, no secession, nothing. What you say clown?

255 posted on 06/14/2003 1:13:56 PM PDT by DestroyEraseImprove
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To: DestroyEraseImprove
Albanians were a minority not a Nation like Croats and Serbs in the former Yugoslavia. Your premise in comparing Kosovo and Krajina is intentionally wrong.

Only if you consider the communist constitution. Others reject it.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

This of course is all semantics, seeing as the Belgrade Serbs sold out Croatia's Serbs.

256 posted on 06/14/2003 1:59:06 PM PDT by Diocletian of Spalato
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To: DestroyEraseImprove
The Int'l Law ignored the illegal secession of the various republics from Yugoslavia, but decided that the "ill-recognized" borders (i.e never recognized by Nato) that Tito redrew. When the Serbs drew their historical lines for their own secession (After the Croats/Muslims made their declaration known), it was deemed "illegal" in the eyes of nato. Which is it?
257 posted on 06/14/2003 3:24:25 PM PDT by PiP PiP Cherrio (Kosovo is Secure! -- www.pedalinpeace.org)
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To: PiP PiP Cherrio
but decided that the "ill-recognized" borders (i.e never recognized by Nato) that Tito redrew.

Hey, we Croats didn't like the redrawn borders either.

Can we go back the agreement of 1939 between Serb Cvetkovic and Croatian Macek?

258 posted on 06/14/2003 3:43:32 PM PDT by Diocletian of Spalato
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To: Diocletian of Spalato
Hey, we Croats didn't like the redrawn borders either.

Your dislike did not prevent you from siding with the islamofascists.

259 posted on 06/15/2003 4:41:54 AM PDT by DestroyEraseImprove
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To: Diocletian of Spalato
Can we go back the agreement of 1939 between Serb Cvetkovic and Croatian Macek?

Sure, why not. But, Croatia has to join Yugoslavia before we can rearrange that agreement. Your welcome.

260 posted on 06/15/2003 4:51:24 AM PDT by DestroyEraseImprove
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