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To: Poohbah
This conversation is pointless in that you spend no time thinking. You feel a certain way and then write what you feel. I will make a couple of final points and then call it quits.

An assault is a verbal threat coupled with the apparent ability to carry out the threat. Hence, pointing your cellular at someone in any manner is not an assault, unless you are verbally threatening to use it in some manner that would lead to serious bodily harm or death.

Fleeing from a traffic stop does usually mean that the driver has an outstanding warrant. There are millions upon millions of outstanding warrants in this country, most for such things as driving without insurance or failure to pay child support. It is for that very reason that most jurisdictions have or are considering prohibiting their officers from engaging in hot pursuit except in the case of a known violent felon being in the pursued car. The number of deaths stemming from hot pursuit are simply too high a price to pay when the police can simply take down a tag number and arrest the violator at work, home or other place when he is not in a position to flee.

As for being innocent, current studies indicate that the average American commits at least one felony and a host of misdemeanors every year due to the vast quantity of laws that have been promulgated in the last thirty years. Congress and the state legislative bodies have delegated their rule making powers to bureacracies that can also establish criminal liabily for violation of rules that the particular agency generates. Hence, if, for instance, you poor your used oil out in your back yard, you may well be guilty of a felony in some states. The point is, we are all felons now, and it's only a matter of who gets caught and which laws they choose to emphasize for enforcement purposes. And with so many criminal laws, every increase in funding for enforcement results in more arrests and therefore higher crime rates (even though the crime rate has in reality remained constant). We therefore are buying our way into a true police state. Something about you makes me think you will like a cop on every corner, though.

BTW, couldn't you come up with a little sarcasm or wit or engaging turn of a phrase, rather than just calling me a dumbshit. It makes you look unintelligent. Just my opinion.

145 posted on 06/21/2003 11:45:23 PM PDT by stryker
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To: stryker
An assault is a verbal threat coupled with the apparent ability to carry out the threat.

Wrong. It is ANY threat, not merely a verbal threat. If I point a firearm at you in a shooting stance without saying a word, that is still assault. The Louisiana Revised Statutes, RS 14:36, defines assault as "Assault is an attempt to commit a battery, or the intentional placing of another in reasonable apprehension of receiving a battery." Acting like you're trying to shoot somebody is both a volitional act (i.e., it is intentional) and puts them in reasonable apprehension of receiving a battery.

Hence, pointing your cellular at someone in any manner is not an assault, unless you are verbally threatening to use it in some manner that would lead to serious bodily harm or death.

This link illustrates an example of a firearm disguised as a cell phone. There are others, in damn near every style of casing.

Coupled with RS 14:36 and the fleeing from a legitimate traffic stop, you're basically requiring every cop in Louisiana to give up their right of self-defense in this situation.

If I had been the victim of a collision because of this guy's stupidity, and he came out of his car pointing a cell phone at me...I'd simply engage in my right of self-defense. Yes, I would rather be judged by twelve than carried by six.

Fleeing from a traffic stop does usually mean that the driver has an outstanding warrant. There are millions upon millions of outstanding warrants in this country, most for such things as driving without insurance or failure to pay child support.

Exactly. One's actions tend to have consequences.

It is for that very reason that most jurisdictions have or are considering prohibiting their officers from engaging in hot pursuit except in the case of a known violent felon being in the pursued car.

Merely attempting to flee now makes the individual guilty of resisting arrest. He now has even more trouble and even more incentive to react violently (and taking off at high speed IS violent) when the cops try to arrest him again.

The number of deaths stemming from hot pursuit are simply too high a price to pay when the police can simply take down a tag number and arrest the violator at work, home or other place when he is not in a position to flee.

But is instead in a position to turn the arrest attempt into a firefight and hostage situation, risking many more innocent lives. So maybe we should stop trying to arrest people on outstanding warrants, period.

BTW, couldn't you come up with a little sarcasm or wit or engaging turn of a phrase, rather than just calling me a dumbshit.

I don't waste sarcasm, wit, or engaging turns of phrase on dumbs**ts.

It makes you look unintelligent.

This comes from the guy who doesn't know the definition of assault.

146 posted on 06/22/2003 12:09:41 PM PDT by Poohbah (I must be all here, because I'm not all there!)
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