Gen.: G.I.s who rip leaders will pay

New York Daily News ^ | 7/17/03 | HELEN KENNEDY

[meandog]

Most of the comments are plain old GI griping but these GIs do merit some relief ... However, I hope there isn't a repeat policy of what we had in Vietnam whereby individuals went instead of units. I noticed that some Guard Divisions have been called up in the news and I trust that Rummy will be sending them in for the 3rdID. I hope after the 3rdID gets back to Ft. Stewart they all receive lengthy R&R time...

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

These loud mouthed pukes can be charged under articles 94 and 134. Time to make examples out of these arrogant nonhackers. Reduce them all to privates and have the sergeant major rip off their chevrons in front of a formation of the entire 3rd ID. Then give them a BCD and turn them loose in Iraq and let them figure out how to get home.

[SerpentDove]

>>This is not new, sinister, or suprising to me or the soldiers involved. I almost bit my tounge off during the Carter administration. <<

That's the difference right there. You held your tongue.

You didn't get in front of a camera to trash the Commander-in-Chief while troops were in harm's way, giving the murderous ragheads encouragement.

[DonQ]

Speaking of that, has anyone heard any news of the raghaed Marine who fragged and killed several of his own troops?

Today's paper reports that the Army is in the midst of deciding exactly how to courtmartial him. Ordinarily it would be within the same division that he served, but he probably couldn't get anything like an unbiased tribunal there so the trial might be elsewhere.

With regard to the lead story of our unhappy troops in Iraq, I wonder how long before there's another fragging.

[Happy2BMe]

"With regard to the lead story of our unhappy troops in Iraq, I wonder how long before there's another fragging."

Raghead fraggers aside, 'Nam was plagued with almost daily fragging.

The longer we stayed, the more fragging occurred.

A large portion of it was on junior officers pushing general orders down through the ranks. The enemy was much as it is in Irag now - friendly by day, lethal by night.

The Ruskies had a large dose of this in Afghanistan - it eventually whittled the support base at home down to nothing and the morale got so low the mission was abandoned.

Russians still cringe when Afghanistan is mentioned to this day.

[Let's Roll]

While I would be just as disappointed to have my plans to return home repeatedly put on hold, there is no way I would give foreign and domestic enemies this opening.

But these - I hope they are mostly reservists - don't seem to understand that this undermining the American war effort only makes things more dangerous for them as it emboldens the Saddam bitter enders. Wake up, the dims and their media lackeys are only too happy to use you to bludgeon the WH and the saddamites to use your attitude as a recruiting tool. "See, Achmed, the Americans are losing their resolve - we can outlast them."

[Happy2BMe]

"I almost bit my tounge off during the Carter administration."

Ahhh yes, the old "They are already overpaid and don't need a raise anywho." president.

Admiration flourished for him - especially in the nuclear submarine fleets.

[WhiskeyPapa]

Hey!!!!!!! Walt! Glad to see you back from time out. I'm glad it wasn't permanent.

Got a nice note from one of the moderators. It was all a misundestanding.

Walt

[Wondervixen]

>>Then give them a BCD and turn them loose in Iraq and let them figure out how to get home.

No, give them new duty orders at the front line in Korea, where Kim wants to stir things back up after all these years.

[30-06 Springfield]

These guys need to grow up and get over it. When I enlisted the recruiter did not tell me all about getting shot at in Vietnam, that something I expected. What about the WW2 vets who landed in North Africa then headed for Italy and then on to France. They were in constant combat and didn't have the luxuries our soldiers have today. Everyone wants the instant gratification of having a 60 minute war.

Didn't they ever hear the phrase: "War is hell, and Combat is a M???er ????er"

[30-06 Springfield]

These loud mouthed pukes can be charged under articles 94 and 134. Time to make examples out of these arrogant nonhackers. Reduce them all to privates and have the sergeant major rip off their chevrons in front of a formation of the entire 3rd ID. Then give them a BCD and turn them loose in Iraq and let them figure out how to get home.

Go SB - tell it like it is.

[sergeantdave]

I imagine that when these "soldiers" get home, they can join Veterans For Peace. Here's a little background on this group:

Jim Long, a rabble-rouser for the Veterans Speakers Alliance and Veterans For Peace, showed up at a fund raiser for President Bush this summer in San Francisco and extolled the virtues of comrade Castro, dictator for life in Cuba. A screaming mob of anarchists, environmentalists, Marxists, the Service Employees International Union, the Communications Workers of America and Green Party watermelons cheered him on.

Long proudly proclaimed that on every November 11th, he goes to Cuba to meet with comrades and honor communist veterans in a special commemorative ceremony. Members of the communist Workers World Party and the anti-war pro-Stalinist International ANSWER that backs the North Korean dictator applauded his communist diversity.

[MeekOneGOP]

Thanks for the ping!

"People always grumble in the trenches," he said. "Typically, administrations are extremely well advised not to throw gasoline on the fire by creating martyrs."

The White House took no public offense at the soldiers' gripes. "We know that they are making significant sacrifices," said spokesman Scott McClellan. "We are going to do everything we can to support them and get them home as soon as we can."

[AnAmericanMother]

Wow! My dad was with the 34th ID as well. 109th Eng. Combat BN. He saw a lot of action, was wounded once and had several near-misses (one from a German 88 and one from the Tuskegee Airmen -- that was an "Ooops!")

He went over in 1942 to Oran and Sidi bel Abess - and he didn't get back until 1946 -- after supervising the Greek elections and being shot at by Communists!

Sure they griped, and as Bill Mauldin (God rest his soul) will tell you, it is the American soldier's God-given right to gripe. But you gripe to your buddies, your sergeant, and your CO if he's a good egg. You DON'T gripe where it can get someplace where the bad guys can read it and use it for their own nefarious purposes.

[george wythe]

The 2nd Brigade, in the Persian Gulf since September, had been told it would be home by May, then July, then August.

Changing promised rotation dates is wrong, especially when done so often, giving false hopes repeatedly.

"Hope deferred makes the heart sick." (Pr 13:12)

In my business world, a client is usually willing to wait a reasonable amount of time to get his finished product, but if I jerk him around with false hopes, he will become bitter even if his false hopes were unrealistic.

Furthermore, when unforeseen circumnstances forces me to delay a finish deadline, I will make it palatable by giving something extra in return.

In this case, these soldiers should have given extra incentives for their extended service, such a bonus paycheck sent immediately to their families or early promotions, or whatever other means the local commander considers appropriate.

Morale is a mind game.

[Spyder]

Two years ago I had the opportunity to have a lovely Sunday brunch in the Officer's Club on Schofield Barracks; a year later I was back, and the place had closed.

They're going more and more to all-ranks clubs. Tripler closed down their O-club a few years back, and I don't think Shafter has one either. We do use the one down at Hickam on occasion.

It's a little more understandable in Hawaii - all the hotels on the island are in competition with what the O-Clubs do, and it's just plain hard to compete.

[IYAS9YAS]

Enlisted and Non-Coms fall under the same rules. We are/were not to talk to the media. Ever. Except to say that we have no comment.

[DPB101]

Maybe Spec. Clinton Deitz wants to become another John (Anna Nicole) Kerry.

[mbynack]

I've been in the same position and it stinks. Normally the military uses one group to fight the war and then has troops who go in later and take over. The duty stinks because most of the time you don’t have much to do and you have too much time to think. At least when you're fighting and moving you don’t have time and you’re too tired to feel sorry for yourself.

On the other hand, you don't go whining to the press about it. I wouldn't even whine to my CO. Everyone over there is in the same boat, so you won't get much sympathy from your coworkers.

I was over there twice. On the first occasion we had to relocate and when we got to the site where we were supposed to set up there was a huge 3-day sandstorm blowing. The wind was blowing over 60 knots and we couldn’t set up our 10 man tents or unpack anything, so we slept in the cab of deuce and halfs and ate cold C-rats. The canvas tops on the trucks didn’t seal very well, so we were covered in fine dust and every time my face got near the door I got a face full of sand. A couple of times there was rain mixed in with the sand. A couple of us were sitting around feeling sorry for ourselves when a Army grunt knocked on the window of the truck to ask if he and a couple of his buddies could sleep under our trucks to get some shelter from the weather.

The lesson here was that no matter how bad things seemed, someone was always worse off. During my second tour of the big sandbox I was an acting Air Force First Sergeant and we actually had it pretty well. A couple of times my guys started complaining and I packed them up in truck and took them up north to see how the Army and Marines were living. In most cases that seemed to make them appreciate the fact that they were getting hot meals, hot showers, had a cot to sleep on, and no one was shooting at them.

[TexKat]

Tim Russert was on Imus this morning and stated that we had some troops/soldiers that had committed suicide over there.