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To: George W. Bush
The priest did in fact withold the grace of the sacrament by witholding the eucharist from the unrepentant sinner!

He withheld the sacrament - not the grace of the sacrament. The grace of the sacrament was inaccessible to the sinner whether he received the Eucharist or was denied it.

a leading German RC historian, Ignaz von Dollinger

(1) Dollinger is not a Roman Catholic historian. He was an apostate historian.

(2) Dollinger's work was done over a century ago. Many documents have been found and much research has been done since his day to show that his conclusions are often incorrect.

(3) As an apostate he is a biased witness. A strong opponent of auricular confession is not likely to produce historical evidence in support of it.

(4) There is a difference between private auricular confession between a penitent and a priest and the truly sacramental aspect: that is, absolution. Public rites of penance for sin and pronunciations of formal absolution are attested by the earliest Church Fathers in both the East and West. Even today in the Catholic Church public rites of absolution may take the place of private confession in certain circumstances.

(5) Auricular confession as it is practiced often today (i.e. - anonymously, often in a darkened booth to shade the face of the penitent) is older than Dollinger ever suspected. It is attested in 8th century Ireland, for example - and Ireland on the outskirts of the Empire was rarely the first in anything related to sacramental ritual.

(6) Auricular, but not anonymous, confession has been practiced for centuries in the East - the Eastern Churches formally recognized it as a sacrament centuries before Dollinger was born.

60 posted on 07/17/2003 12:02:34 PM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: wideawake; MarMema; FormerLib; RussianConservative
wideawake: (6) Auricular, but not anonymous, confession has been practiced for centuries in the East - the Eastern Churches formally recognized it as a sacrament centuries before Dollinger was born.

I'd like to check that. I've never heard the Orthodox say this.

So, you Orthodox folks, is wideawake right? Has the Eastern church practiced auricular confession since the apostolic era? Do you confess and receive absolution from your priests (and by the authority of your priests) just as the Roman churches do?
61 posted on 07/17/2003 12:08:07 PM PDT by George W. Bush
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