Hydrogen cars hold expensive surprises

The Globe and Mail ^ | Friday, Jul. 18, 2003 | STEPHEN STRAUSS

[plsvn]

What were the other security reasons surrounding He(he said in a high squeaky voice) ?

I'm not a history buff, but I seem to recall reading or hearing that He wasn't exported for security reasons. I'm hoping someone better versed in the history of the times could confirm this.

[Bob]

From a Wired.com article on current lighter-than-air developments:

Most baby boomers have heard the radio announcer's wail: "Oh the humanity! The humanity!" Some have even seen the film footage of the Hindenburg's crash, which occurred in Lakehurst, New Jersey, on May 6, 1937. Those records of the catastrophe sealed the fate of these airships, even though the Hindenburg fire was an anomaly; hydrogen-lift ships rarely ignited.

Even so, Germany had long been cognizant of the gas' potential for combustion, and began negotiating with the US in the 1920s to import helium, which is 7 percent heavier than hydrogen but has the distinct advantage of not blowing up. (At the time, the US controlled the entire world supply of helium.) By 1937, political tensions in Europe prompted the US to hoard the gas, forcing the Germans to fill the Hindenburg with hydrogen.

Emphasis mine.

[The Energizer]

ping

[Joined2Justify]

>Don't ask about the by products.<

I think you're right. Producing either of these in quantity has not been known to be all that clean of an event...

Maybe there could be a "clean" way, but til now has been tossed as "not economical".

[B Knotts]

A small hydrogen fuel cell may eventually power homes and get us off the grid.

Yes, but where do you get the hydrogen for that fuel cell?

That's right...from LP (liquid petroleum) gas or natural gas. That's what GE's home fuel cell unit runs on.

[PeaceBeWithYou]

Check this out.

Capstone Microturbines

Reliable, efficient, scalable, fuel flexable, available now, and tons cheaper.

[R. Scott]

Great – we’ll have clean emission cars, but making the clean fuel will cause massive air pollution at the refinery. Even if we switch to producing hydrogen by electrolysis, the power needed for this will cause more pollution at the generators – the same if we switch to electric cars. People will spend and extra $5,000.00 per car, and be stuck in cities that have hydrogen stations.

[R. Scott]

Source

In an effort to keep the Nazis from using the Hindenburg for military proposes the United States Congress passed the Helium Control Act. This Act made it impossible for the Zeppelin Company to obtain Helium because the United States has the only natural deposits of Helium. This upset Dr. Eckert who got along well the United States government and was openly critical of the Nazi government. There was nothing for him to do; therefore on March 4, 1936 the Hindenburg, inflated with the volatile gas, hydrogen, made its maiden voyage.

[Bon mots]

I like nuclear power .... I just wish that I had one behind the back yard.

There was a kid somewhere who built a nuclear reactor in a metal shed in his back yard...

Here it is... just found it on Google:

The Radio-Active Boy Scout

The whole story of how he did it is really interesting.

[dalereed]

"Fires would be the only way to burn up the extra O2 to save whats left of the planet."

No, the proliferation of termites would be unbearable. Currently nature maintains the oxygen content of the air with methane (termite farts).

[Fabozz]

"It's strange that so many people are dissing hydrogen fuel. A small hydrogen fuel cell may eventually power homes and get us off the grid."

Hydrogen is not, and never will be, a "fuel." "Fuel" is something that contains more energy than it costs to create, and until we discover deposits of molecular hydrogen in the ground, H₂ will never meet that standard. Hydrogen is a battery, a way of storing up one form of energy for more convenient use later.

The only thing a "hydrogen economy" accomplishes is decoupling energy consumption from energy production—in other words, since any form of energy can be converted economically into hydrogen, and any form of work can, once a hydrogen distribution network is established, be performed economically with hydrogen, a hydrogen economy lets us pick the most efficient methods of both production and consumption.

The dirty secret, though, is that far and away the most efficient method of hydrogen production is nuclear power. Now I, for one, am 100% behind nuclear power, so when people say "hydrogen" I say "bring it on!" Your typical hydrogen enthusiast, however, hates nukes even more than he hates fossil fuels, so I'm really at a loss to explain hydrogen's popularity.

[Fabozz]

"I like nuclear power .... I just wish that I had one behind the back yard."

Nah, no point. Although the cancer-preventative effects of low-level radioactive exposure—demonstrated by medical studies on airline crews and Denver residents—are highly desirable, nuclear plants simply don't produce enough radioactivity. Your typical nuclear plant releases less radiation than granite buildings like the U.S. and Texas Capitols.

So there's no upside to living next to a nuke plant, and plenty of downside—you'd routinely have to clean the detritus of leftist anti-nuke protesters out of your yard. Who wants that hassle?

[Consort]

It will be a "fuel" if enough people say it's a "fuel." The government and industry say to it as a fuel. It's probably a fuel.

[Fabozz]

Popular opinion, policital gamesmanship and slick corporate marketing do not alter the Laws of Thermodynamics. Until a source of ready-to-use molecular hydrogen is discovered, the energy spent to produce H₂ plus the energy value of the feedstock will always be greater than the energy available through consuming H₂. This is a simple and unalterable fact, one which you can confirm with the help of any first-semester Physics textbook in existence.

The greenies say hydrogen is a fuel because without promising (falsely) the masses a replacement for gasoline to run their cars, the "watermelon" agenda would be dead on arrival. The government says hydrogen is a fuel because this country must invest more in nuclear power, and hydrogen is the "Trojan horse" that will slip nukes past the greenies. And corporations like Ballard Power say hydrogen is a fuel because it attracts big-bucks investment. Those entities' press releases notwithstanding, hydrogen will always be just a bookkeeping trick that shuffles energy from one column to another, losing a little along the way.

[Centurion2000]

Your typical nuclear plant releases less radiation than granite buildings like the U.S. and Texas Capitols.

So there's no upside to living next to a nuke plant, and plenty of downside—you'd routinely have to clean the detritus of leftist anti-nuke protesters out of your yard. Who wants that hassle ?

In TEXAS ? I'd LOVE to see a pack of protestors step on my front lawn ....
"I was in fear for my life and my property, judge .... had to shoot them all."

Besides ... being NEXT to the plant means that short of a nuclear attack the power will ALWAYS be on :)

[forester]

Thanks for the link. I have been following Tom Beardon's MEG generator for several years now at his website There is more to this stuff then people want to admit.

[jla]

Hydrogen Exonerated in Hindenburg Disaster

[sixmil]

A friend of mine was working on a high-efficiency carburetor and stumbled onto a way to convert gasoline and water into hydrogen gas and CO2. Too bad CO2 is considered a pollutant, but this can be minimized by using methanol instead of gasoline. His patent is here. His converted auto will probably never make it to market since the auto companies are developing their own gasoline reformers, except that they are using a catalyst since they are too stupid to do it with an atomizer and a little heat. This solution is really nice since there is no stored H2, it is simply produced as needed. It also nearly doubles fuel efficiency since the mix is 1 part water to 1 part gas. I say nearly since you lose something like 15% horsepower. My friend is now trying to sell it as a H2 feeder for fuel cells since they seem to be all the rage, but good luck finding a fuel cell that can even power a golf cart. Maybe it'll work well for powering homes or neighborhoods.

[plsvn]

By 1937, political tensions in Europe prompted the US to hoard the gas, forcing the Germans to fill the Hindenburg with hydrogen.

Thanks Bob for posting this confirmation. A few of my brain cells apparently still work at recalling this sort of stuff!

[adam_az]

Enjoyed that artice - very interesting!!!