Apple-Pie Eugenics: War Against the Weak

BreakPoint ^ | 2 Oct 03 | Chuck Colson

[VOA]

thanks for the heads-up...I just didn't catch it with so many threads to hit.

[TopQuark]

Zack, there is no question that various governments are dictatorial to various degree. We were discussing the question of programs funded by the developed countries in Africa and Asia. The point was that they do not coerce.

You too have used the word "we," and that does not mean Mexicans.

[Zack Nguyen]

Surely you know that China has a coercive one-child policy. Maybe you mean other Asian countries?

[Zack Nguyen]

Or do you mean stuf that is funded by America through the UN?

[RichardMoore]

Frank J. Sheed was a street preacher in England who was made a Doctor of the Church, the only street preacher who ever was made a Doctor of the Church. He argued and answered the questions of the general public and explained Catholic theology to all who would come. His book, THEOLOGY AND SANITY is the best book I have ever read. His books can be found at ignatius.com(He and his wife founded Ignatius Press in the 1940's, they were good friends of GK Chesterton)

[RichardMoore]

Be that as it may, by your definition we no longer actually have capitalism. But we do have plenty of capitalists who make plenty of capital and who are "in bed" with Big Government.

[RichardMoore]

Yes, and G K Chesterton talks about it in EUGENICS AND OTHER EVILS.

He said that the Captains of Industry had decided that Industrial Capitalism was a failure because it couldn't afford to pay one man enough to support a family as large as he could have.

So they set about to encouage and promote abortion, contraception and divorce.

That is the Eugenic Society that we have today.

[Mr. Silverback]

thanks for the heads-up...I just didn't catch it with so many threads to hit.

Hey, I know that feeling!

[First Amendment]

Why do you say her "natural lifespan" (your quotation marks) ended a couple decades ago because she needs care almost like a small baby? What about old people who can't care for themselves? Or people who are sick and can't care for themselves? Sometimes people are sick for a year or two, and then recover. Is your standard of whether someone should be allowed to live that they are independent and need no help?

It sounds as though you are saying the natural lifespan stops when a person needs help. Do you admire the practices of various aboriginal peoples who leave their old people to die alone, once they become feeble?

[First Amendment]

We are suffering from the malady of oversized government, which the Founders warned us about, early and often. If we waved a magic wand and changed all the retarded and handicapped folks to able-bodied folks, there would still be a massive underclass expecting government handouts, a massive number of working people whose vision of compassion involves a lot of people sitting at Formica desks shuffling papers, and a whole lot of politicians ready to serve those desires in order to gain votes.

If you think sterilizing a bunch of mentally handicapped people will get us out of the mess we're in, you're losing your mind. And if you think that elected public servants like say, Maxine Waters and Robert Byrd are feebleminded, then you missed the moral context. These people are not stupid, they are evil servants of an ideology that killed at least 160 million people last century. That's not retarded, that's diabolical.

I just had to repeat your statements. Absolutely true, and masterfully expressed!!!!

[Desdemona]

Yes, and G K Chesterton talks about it in EUGENICS AND OTHER EVILS.

I actually got all my information from secular sources, but Chesterton is definitely a good resource.

[PurVirgo]

Without turning this into an "evils of welfare" thread, there is a simple solution to the crackhead mom situation - mandatory UAs/follicle drug testing before getting any kind of gov't assistance, and before every check is issued.

At one time, I was for forced sterilization. But I cannot in good conscience support that cause anymore, from a humanitarian standpoint. As much of a "burden" as the poor are, they have the same rights as you and I do.

After all, free will was God's greatest gift. It's what we do with it that is our choice. I personally do not want my exercize of free will to include limiting someone else's natural rights.

But as for sterilization of rapists and murderers -

I think the victims of rape should decide for themselves whether or not to abort. And murderers - if we upheld life with no chance of parole (not 15-20 yrs bullcrap), then obviously they could not procreate.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that autonomy should be the guiding principle. Your mistake=Your responsibility, not my burden to bear.

[PurVirgo]

Look, Lev. 20 states a course...shouldn't that apply here?

I read that chapter, and one thing I find interesting is that it's "instructions" call for a lot of stoning.

I could be wrong, but doesn't one of the Commandments explicitly ask us not to kill each other??

And another thing - "genes" are not an accident - If the Creator did not mean for it to be, then how could the gene exist in the first place?? Hypothetically, of course, given your set of argument parameters.

[PurVirgo]

thanks a bunch for the information - I will have to check that out =)

[CodeMonkey]

The baby is dependent exclusively on the parents for survival for several years. Why not allow abortion until age three or four?

The difference is that usually before 6 months the fetus cannot maintain homeostasis outside the mother's womb. It would die at 4 months if it were taken outside its mother's womb. You could leave a newborn on someone's steps and they'd be able to take care of it just as well as the biological parents. Big difference.

[Mr. Silverback]

I just had to repeat your statements. Absolutely true, and masterfully expressed!!!!

Why thank you! Every once in a while I put the words in the right order. ;-)

[RichardMoore]

Thank you so much. I have been involved in a lengthy discussion with some fellow Christians who profess to believe that man does not have free will. It is exhsuting at times. So I appreciate a kind word when it comes my way. ciao for now
Rich

[PurVirgo]

hehe - I know what you mean. If you ask me, Free Will goes all the way back to Eden and an apple, if you know what I mean.

Free will separates us from lower life forms. Mental Prowess as opposed to physical, choice over instinct. To deny free will is to deny God, if you want my (humble) opinion.

Hey, I appreciate a kind word now and then too, so back atcha!!!