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To: DannyTN
Partially correct and partially incorrect. There is clearly such a thing as tense in Hebrew-- as their is in any language. While it's true that Prophets sometimes speak of the future as the past, reading the context of the verses can make it easy to differentiate when Prophets are speaking prophetically, and when they are actually speaking in the past. For example the context of Isaiah 7 (a young woman has already conceived):

2When the house of David heard that Aram had allied itself with Ephraim, the heart of Ahaz and the heart of his people shook as the trees of the forest shake before the wind. 3Then the LORD said to Isaiah, Go out to meet Ahaz, you and your son Shear-jashub, at the end of the conduit of the upper pool on the highway to the Fuller's Field, 4and say to him, Take heed, be quiet, do not fear, and do not let your heart be faint because of these two smoldering stumps of firebrands, because of the fierce anger of Rezin and Aram and the son of Remaliah. 5Because Aram--with Ephraim and the son of Remaliah--has plotted evil against you, saying, 6Let us go up against Judah and cut off Jerusalem and conquer it for ourselves and make the son of Tabeel king in it; 7therefore thus says the Lord GOD: It shall not stand, and it shall not come to pass. 8For the head of Aram is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin. (Within sixty-five years Ephraim will be shattered, no longer a people.) 9The head of Ephraim is Samaria, and the head of Samaria is the son of Remaliah. If you do not stand firm in faith, you shall not stand at all. 10 Again the LORD spoke to Ahaz, saying, 11Ask a sign of the LORD your God; let it be deep as Sheol or high as heaven. 12But Ahaz said, I will not ask, and I will not put the LORD to the test. 13Then Isaiah said: "Hear then, O house of David! Is it too little for you to weary mortals, that you weary my God also? 14Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Look, the young woman is with child and shall bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel. 15He shall eat curds and honey by the time he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. 16For before the child knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land before whose two kings you are in dread will be deserted.

The context is that Ahaz is troubled by Aram's invasion of Judah, and fears that he will lose his crown and country. Isaiah says, essentially, "don't worry, G-d will make sure the invasion does not succeed--- here's proof, a young woman is with child..." The obvious context being that a young woman in Ahaz's court had just gotten pregnant-- the sign being that she will choose to name her child Immanuel (probably informing Ahaz shortly after Isaiah's words), and that by the time the child is a toddler, Judah will be secure from it's enemies. It would hardly be a "sign" for Isaiah to say "Yo Ahaz, don't you be worrying 'bout dis invasion for it won't succeed. Let me prove it to you, 600 years from now a child will be born." That's hardly the kind of "sign" that would have comforted Ahaz--- on the other hand, having a relative come to him a few days later and say "Oh Ahaz, guess what, I'm pregnant and I'm naming my child Immanuel" would be exactly the kind of comfort Ahaz needed.

I won't respond to your posts anymore, as I find this exchange dull and tiresome.

189 posted on 10/13/2003 11:51:29 AM PDT by ChicagoHebrew
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To: ChicagoHebrew
Whether a future promise was sufficient for Ahaz, depends on how much faith Ahaz had in God.

David took it on faith that since God had promised that David would be King, and was willing to face Goliath, because David knew in order for God to keep His word, David couldn't lose.

190 posted on 10/13/2003 12:00:40 PM PDT by DannyTN (Note left on my door by a pack of neighborhood dogs.)
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To: ChicagoHebrew
The Context of Isa 53.

Start of ChapterIsa 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

In context, a lot of people aren't going to believe Isaiah and the others about the arm of the Lord.

>Endo of ChapterIsaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Whoever Isaiah is talking about, His soul will be offered as a sin offering, yet He will see his seed, He will bear the sin of many and make intercession for the transgressors.

Now there is a context I love.

Ahh, but of course I'm an idiot, to think I can understand what Isaiah is talking about. A ignorant fool Christian missionary with his dull and tiresome and boring arguments.

Too stupid to realize that the suffering servant is Israel. Because everyone knows Israel's soul was offered as a sin offering and Israel bore the sins of many.

191 posted on 10/13/2003 12:33:50 PM PDT by DannyTN (Note left on my door by a pack of neighborhood dogs.)
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To: ChicagoHebrew; Zionist Conspirator
I meant to ping ChicagoHebrew to #200 not Zionist Conspirator. I'm sorry ZC.
202 posted on 10/14/2003 6:51:35 AM PDT by ET(end tyranny) (Proverbs 6:23 -- For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; . . . the way of life)
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