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Lefebvre Group Attacks Pope's Ecumenical Vision
Zenit News Agency ^
| February 2, 2004
Posted on 02/03/2004 5:59:39 AM PST by NYer
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1
posted on
02/03/2004 5:59:39 AM PST
by
NYer
To: american colleen; sinkspur; Lady In Blue; Salvation; CAtholic Family Association; narses; ...
No mention is made of the 2000 declaration "Dominus Iesus" on "The Uniqueness and Salvific Universality of Jesus Christ and the Church," or of John Paul II's repeated rejection of this faulty view of ecumenism.
1. The Lord Jesus, before ascending into heaven, commanded his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to the whole world and to baptize all nations: Go into the whole world and proclaim the Gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; he who does not believe will be condemned (Mk 16:15-16); All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the world (Mt 28:18-20; cf. Lk 24:46-48; Jn 17:18,20,21; Acts 1:8).
"DOMINUS IESUS"
DECLARATION ON THE UNICITY AND SALVIFIC UNIVERSALITY OF JESUS CHRIST AND THE CHURCH
2
posted on
02/03/2004 6:05:27 AM PST
by
NYer
(Ad Jesum per Mariam)
To: NYer
These jokers have no intention of reunification. Fellay and Williamson think they're going to bring Rome to heel.
Don't be surprised if the next Pope cuts them loose...permanently.
3
posted on
02/03/2004 6:08:00 AM PST
by
sinkspur
(Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
To: NYer
Dear NYer,
Interesting article.
It makes one wonder whether the SSPX faction that would like to fall into outright sedevacantism is gaining leverage. Or perhaps SG Fellay is trying to co-opt them. Though the need to co-opt them is a sign of their strength.
sitetest
4
posted on
02/03/2004 6:11:09 AM PST
by
sitetest
To: NYer
In his 1988 apostolic letter "Ecclesia Dei," John Paul II stressed the "unlawful" ordination of bishops within the fraternity on the part of Archbishop Lefebvre, which constituted "a schismatic act." At least these folks have the courtesy of being straight forward in their beliefs. They are wrong, but they do not hide their convictions. The AmChurch dissenters should follow their lead and openly state their dissent and heresy instead of pretending to be loyal Catholics.
5
posted on
02/03/2004 6:18:25 AM PST
by
johnb2004
To: NYer
I read the letter and found it to be a devastating critique of the ecuminical vision of JPII. The letter provided a stark contrast between JPII's views and the perennial teaching of the Catholic Church backed up by numerous references to prior Church teaching.
Also encouraging was the attack on Cardinal Kasper. Hopefully, those cardinals who consider Kasper a candidate to be the next pope will wake up after reading this letter.
To: NYer
Wow. They went to the press instead of the pope? This is like those priests rebelling in Wisconsin - they also went to the press before going to their bishop. Same thing has happened in Boston.
No mention is made of the 2000 declaration "Dominus Iesus" on "The Uniqueness and Salvific Universality of Jesus Christ and the Church,"
Maybe they missed the encyclical? < /sarcasm>
To: Bellarmine
I do not agree with the interfaithism of the Catholic church. I do believe that Pope John Paul II muddies the water even for those who hold to historical Catholic doctrine and that the SSPXers and Trad Catholics of the world even though I do not believe in Catholic doctrine have a good point! When one figures out the Vatican believes that all religions should join together for peace (read Zenit weekly youll see this)or that the "Seeds of the Word" exsist even in false pagan religions it can be a bit revealing and disappointing especially if you believe Christ is the ONLY way.
To: NYer
The letter presents a 47-page document entitled "From Ecumenism to Silent Apostasy: 25 Years of Pontificate" ("De loecuménisme à lapostasie silencieuse, 25 ans de pontificat"). First, the very title of this letter shows that the SSPXers are accusing the Pope of apostasy, which in essence is the same as a charge of heresy, which they claim they are not doing. Second, it is unjust and ridiculous to charge someone with "silent" apostasy. If one does not have any teaching of heresy and any overt evidence of apostasy, then it is simply a slanderous smear to charge someone with this.
The document interprets the position of John Paul II and other Church figures on ecumenism as a sign of the loss of the Catholic Church's own identity by putting it on the same level with Christian denominations of other confessions.
No mention is made of the 2000 declaration "Dominus Iesus" on "The Uniqueness and Salvific Universality of Jesus Christ and the Church," or of John Paul II's repeated rejection of this faulty view of ecumenism.
Precisely so. Thus the SSPX continues its total and malicious mischaraterization of the Pope's ecumenical actions, treating ecumenism per se as wrong as opposed to mistaken understandings of it.
In his 1988 apostolic letter "Ecclesia Dei," John Paul II stressed the "unlawful" ordination of bishops within the fraternity on the part of Archbishop Lefebvre, which constituted "a schismatic act."
And yet we are told again and again on this forum that SSPX is not in schism, and that the Vatican does not hold them to be such. And we are told again and again that it is "necessary" for the faith to be disobedient to the "unorthodox" Pope because some disciplinary matters relating to the liturgy have changed since the Vatican II Council.
To: Victoria68
The Catholic Church does not teach religious relativism or the equivalence of all religions. That is a false and slanderous mischaracterization. The fullness of truth is to be found in the Catholic Church, but there are elements of truth to be found in other religions where their beliefs are the same as Catholics. It is a logical impossibility to say that other religions are entirely wrong. What happens when they believe the same thing as the Catholic Church? If a religion believes that murder is a sin or that God is beneficent and merciful, are we Catholics to denounce such beliefs because they are taught in other religions?
To: Bellarmine
The letter provided a stark contrast between JPII's views and the perennial teaching of the Catholic Church backed up by numerous references to prior Church teaching.In what way has the Pope breached any irreformable teaching of dogmatic definitions of Popes or Ecumenical Councils or of the ordinary and universal magisterium of the Church, as opposed to reformable teachings of the ordinary magisterium or disciplinary matters? Only the former are Apostolic Tradition. The latter are at most tradition with a small "t".
To: sinkspur
One wonders what might happen here. The Vat's comments are very pointed...
Rome's dilemma, of course, is to figure out how to exculpt the troublemakers while retaining the untermensch--those who don't really know any better.
Hmmmmm.
15
posted on
02/03/2004 7:17:57 AM PST
by
ninenot
(Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
To: Bellarmine
There may have been all of TEN Cardinals who viewed Kasper as "papabile." He's not now, never was, and never will be "papabile."
16
posted on
02/03/2004 7:19:36 AM PST
by
ninenot
(Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
To: ninenot
According to a survey posted in The Latin Mass magazine, he was in the top 5.
To: Bellarmine
I read the letter and found it to be a devastating critique of the ecuminical vision of JPII. The letter provided a stark contrast between JPII's views and the perennial teaching of the Catholic Church backed up by numerous references to prior Church teaching.Do you have a link where we can read it on line?
To: Maximilian
www.dici.org
To: Maximilian
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