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To: AlguyA
Hmmmm….I wonder why people always use the “God is love” verse in 1st John and not “For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.” (Deut 4:24). Love is only one attribute of God. For a more balance look at the nature of God you may wish to read Revelations (and Ezekiel in the OT). Please consider the following:

“Then I heard a loud voice from the temple, saying to the seven angels, “Go and pour out on the earth the seven bowls of the wrath of God.” Rev 16:1

If we truly understood the wrath of God that is coming, we’d be in church everyday in earnest prayer.

186 posted on 03/15/2004 5:45:59 AM PST by HarleyD (READ Your Bible-STUDY to show yourself approved)
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To: HarleyD
"Hmmmm….I wonder why people always use the “God is love” verse in 1st John and not “For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.” (Deut 4:24). Love is only one attribute of God. For a more balance look at the nature of God you may wish to read Revelations (and Ezekiel in the OT)."

It strikes me that what we have, here, is a failure to communicate. I thought about our conversation last evening during prayer time and realized that when I as a Catholic say "love" you may be hearing something different than what I mean. Certainly, in our modern culture, "love" often is used to connote some 'warm, fuzzy' feeling of affection we may experience. This is not what I, nor the Church, means by love. Indeed, the three theological virtues often given as being, "faith, hope and love" are, for this reason to my way of thinking, better stated as being, "faith, hope and charity," in that the latter formulation more succinctly indicates the giving of self and, ultimately, the abandonment of self. "Love" used in its modern connotation, then, with its emphasis on the 'good feeling' engender in the self is, in many ways, contrary to true 'love' with its emphasis on the abandonment of self.

Consider, for example, Matthew Chap. 5. From the Sermon on the Mount to 'turning the other cheek' to the admonition we are to "love our enemies" Jesus continually drives home the point we follow him when we abandon our 'self.' And we are to do this, so that we may be made "perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

Essentially, we become perfect as Our Father in heaven is perfect when we 'love God with all our hearts, minds, bodies and souls and when we love our neighbor as our self for the love of God.' We become perfect when we abandon our 'self' totally to God, in the same way He abandoned Himself totally for us. We may get a few 'warm fuzzies' along the way, but most Catholic writers of any merit recognize such a process is far more painful than joyous. What makes the journey worth it is the promise of eternal life with a loving God.

Hence, I see no conflict between 1John's statement 'God is Love' and Deut. 4:24. To totally abandon one's self to God perforce means God is 'all-consuming' and 'jealously' demands everything from us. God IS Love. And if we wish to partake of that Love we must be willing to love in return.

Please consider the following: “Then I heard a loud voice from the temple, saying to the seven angels, “Go and pour out on the earth the seven bowls of the wrath of God.” Rev 16:1

Again, you seem to believe this verse ADDS something to the notion God is Love. But it doesn't. Now, it may be possible to act justly without loving, but it is not possible to love without being just. How can love be unjust? Thus, God's wrath derives from His Love. Having created everything, and having poured out Himself on the Cross, is would be unjust to not be wrathful with those who refuse Him.

You know, its interesting. Every time I go to confession, after confessing my sins I say an Act of Contrition. The one I use goes something like this: "Oh my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended thee. And I detest all my sins, because I fear the pains of hell and the loss of heaven(some versions say "thy just punishments") but, most of all, because they offend you, My God, who are deserving of all my love. I resolve, with the help of Your grace, to avoid sin and the near occasion of sin."

Now, look at what I'm saying, here. First, I'm saying I am sorry for my sins because I fear God's just punishement. This is variously called, "attrition," or "imperfect contrition." And, frankly, this is good enough for forgivenss. But, remember, fear of the Lord is only the BEGINNING of Wisdom. Now look at what comes next, "but most of all, because they offend you, my God, who are deserving of all my love." This gets us closer to 'perfect contrition' -detesting sin not just because we fear punishment, but because we love God so much we don't want to offend Him. It's like what happens with children. First, they learn to listen to "No" because they will get a spanking or a time out. Hopefully, as they grow, they do what they should because they don't want to disappoint. First, they obey out of a sense of justice, then they obey out of a sense of love.

Consider the commandments. In the original Torah, there are 613 of them, really. And all of them were God's revelation teaching Man such virtues as Temperence, Prudence, Justice, etc. Yet, when Christ came, He told us all the cammandments boil down to just two (which He draws from Deut. and Leviticus.) -Love God with all your Heart and Love your Neighbor as your self. Love, then, is the pinnacle of all else God is.

"If we truly understood the wrath of God that is coming, we’d be in church everyday in earnest prayer."

Concur.

219 posted on 03/15/2004 11:02:32 AM PST by AlguyA
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