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Pope Recalls Fatima Consecration
CWNews.com ^ | 3/24/2004

Posted on 03/24/2004 8:26:57 AM PST by CatherineSiena

Vatican, Mar. 24 (CWNews.com) - At his weekly public audience on March 24, Pope John Paul II (bio - news) recalled that 20 years ago, he consecrated "all of humanity" to the Virgin Mary, thus fulfilling "our Lady's plea at Fatima."

The Holy Father began his remarks by reminding his audience that Thursday, March 25, is the feast of the Annunciation, "which allows us to contemplate the Incarnation of the Eternal Word, made man in Mary's womb." He added that Mary's "fiat" echoes the obedience of Jesus to the divine plan, "to which we must add our 'Yes.'"

The Pope said that at three different times during his pontificate, he has made consecrations to the Virgin Mary. On December 8, 1978-- just weeks after his election-- he consecrated the Church and the world to the Immaculate Conception. In June 1979 he renewed that consecration during a visit to the shrine of the Black Madonna in Poland. Then on March 25, 1984, he made the consecration which, he said, fulfilled the terms of the Virgin's plea at Fatima.

The Pope said:

Twenty years have gone by since that day when, in spiritual union with all the bishops of the world, I entrusted all of mankind to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, in response to Our Lady's plea in Fatima.

Today's world remains too full of "hatred, violence, terrorism, and war," the Pope said. He asked for prayer for all the innocent people who suffer from violence as "so much blood continued to be shed." He appealed to the Virgin Mary's aid to help turn men's hearts and minds, to end the violence.

Although his voice was halting, the Pope read the entirety of his remarks, in Italian. When he had finished his formal delivery, he offered greetings to the 14,000 people assembled in St. Peter's Square for the audience, speaking to them in French, English, German, Spanish, and Polish. He remained in the Square for nearly an hour, giving his blessing to young couples and to the sick, and posing for pictures with pilgrim groups.


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To: sinkspur
If you want to believe a guy who's got a ministry to shill for, as opposed to the Vicar of Christ...

Who also has a ministry to shill for, of course.

41 posted on 03/24/2004 5:04:44 PM PST by John Locke
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To: PetroniusMaximus
Peter, it might help your deliberations if I informed you that the following statement:

"...Do you suffer a great deal? Don’t be discouraged. I will never forsake you. My Immaculate Heart will be your refuge and the road that will conduct you to God."

is taken almost verbatim from the Cult of Isis.

42 posted on 03/24/2004 5:06:02 PM PST by John Locke
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To: John Locke
***"...Do you suffer a great deal? Don’t be discouraged. I will never forsake you. My Immaculate Heart will be your refuge and the road that will conduct you to God." - is taken almost verbatim from the Cult of Isis.***



Man! Where did you find that???

If that is true it throw a whole different light in this subject! This may be the same demonic spirit that was behind Isis worship is masquerading as Mary?



For some of the others in this discussion... doesn't just the possibility that this could be true frighten you and give you pause?



43 posted on 03/24/2004 5:17:22 PM PST by PetroniusMaximus
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To: PetroniusMaximus; John Locke
When you slander the Mother of Our Lord Jesus Christ, are you fighting for His Glory, or for the "glory" of "the ruler of this world?" Who's really under the influence of demons?
44 posted on 03/24/2004 5:26:45 PM PST by Pyro7480 (Minister for the Conversion of Hardened Sinners,Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: BlackElk; Canticle_of_Deborah
It does no good to "bade farewell" to a sister of yours in Christ, when she holds a position different from yours. We are all called to "acts of mercy, words of mercy, and prayers of mercy." If you cannot act mercifully, or use merciful words, pray for her! If you think she is in error, pray for her! Do not use your words to tear down. Use them to build up, "all to the glory of God." God is the only judge of hearts. Maybe when you're in the state of prayer, God will let you realize what good you need to do.
45 posted on 03/24/2004 5:32:34 PM PST by Pyro7480 (Minister for the Conversion of Hardened Sinners,Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
So why won't he do it?
46 posted on 03/24/2004 5:36:51 PM PST by netmilsmom (God Bless Madison Lyn!)
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To: Pyro7480; John Locke
***When you slander the Mother of Our Lord Jesus Christ, are you fighting for His Glory, or for the "glory" of "the ruler of this world?" Who's really under the influence of demons?***


But is it TRUE? Did this apparition really quote Isis?

If the apparition did, why would Mary need to quote the demon goddess Isis???

I would never slander the blessed mother of Jesus, the handmaiden of the Lord! I am questioning whether this apparition is really her. If it is not and if it is an impersonation - shouldn't we fight it???



St John himself warned us...

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world."
47 posted on 03/24/2004 5:39:44 PM PST by PetroniusMaximus
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah

"Rome will lose the Faith and become the seat of the AntiChrist." --Our Lady of LaSalette

Yep, that blind obedience will be real helpful in the days to come. Great job!

That quote from Melanie Calvat (not Our Lady!) is heretical, since it claims that the Apostolic See can err. The so-called "Secret" was in fact placed on the Index of Forbidden Books.

1. That which our lord Jesus Christ, the prince of shepherds and great shepherd of the sheep, established in the blessed apostle Peter, for the continual salvation and permanent benefit of the Church, must of necessity remain for ever, by Christ's authority, in the Church which, founded as it is upon a rock, will stand firm until the end of time [45].
6. All the venerable Fathers and holy orthodox doctors venerated and followed their [i.e., the successors of Peter] apostolic doctrine; they knew full well that this See of St. Peter always remained unstained by all error, according to the divine promise which Our Savior made to the chief of His disciples when He said, 'I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail, and you, having turned, strengthen your brothers.' (Pastor Aeternus)

48 posted on 03/24/2004 5:41:37 PM PST by gbcdoj
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To: PetroniusMaximus
Isis isn't "real" in the sense that she said something, like Jesus actually said something. Either a pagan made the words up, or a demon said the original words of Isis. That is why only a few apparitions of Mary are actually approved by the Church. These include Guadalupe, Lourdes, Fatima, and Akita. These to not advocate anything contrary to Church teaching.
49 posted on 03/24/2004 5:47:37 PM PST by Pyro7480 (Minister for the Conversion of Hardened Sinners,Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: netmilsmom
That is the million dollar question. Pope Pius XII performed a consecration of Russia but all the bishops of the world did not participate (I don't know why). His partial consecration is believed to have obtained graces which ended WWII.

One of many rumors about Pope John Paul I is that he was preparing to do the consecration before he was, um, removed from this world. Sister Lucy herself met with him privately when he visited Fatima as the Archbishop of Venice. She must have known he would be the next Pope.


50 posted on 03/24/2004 5:51:45 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: BlackElk
Right On Target Black Elk!!

It seems that the overiding concern of these people is the importance (cleverness/intellect) of their own opinions.

When Peter was confronted with a very obvious situation where Jesus was being arrested, he responded with his own opinion which was "let's fight and defend The Lord". When told "put down your sword" he obeyed regardless of his own opinion. When the vicar of Christ tells us something is right (or wrong), I obey regardless of my own opinion. Time for all sedevacantists, SSPX's, etc to put their own puny opinions aside and listen to the Church!
51 posted on 03/24/2004 5:53:35 PM PST by GoBoks (Please pledge your Prayers for the Holy Souls in Purgatory at http://www.MTEP.com)
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To: John Locke
Just goes to show you that one can twist anything to fit your needs....

It has often been said and written that the cult of Isis and Horus and the worship of MARY the Virgin and the Child are one and the same thing, but the above summary of facts, which are derived from Egyptian religious texts, has been prepared to show that such is not the case. The original Isis was an African goddess who appeared in human form, and married the god-man Osiris, and conceived a son begotten by him after he had been murdered. MARY was a woman, the daughter of well-known parents, and although the circumstances that attended her conception were so unusual as to be miraculous she was not divine.

MARY became with child of the Holy Ghost, and when she had given birth to the Son of God she remained a virgin. The wanderings of MARY during her flight from Herod's wrath re-call the wanderings of Isis, especially as both Isis and MARY raised the dead and worked other miracles. Horus was killed by a scorpion, and was raised up again through the spells of Thoth, but Jesus did not die until He was crucified. Osiris, more than Horus, resembles Jesus in respect of His murder by the Jews. Isis bewailed Osiris in the shrines of Egypt, as MARY bewailed her Son at Golgotha. The seven scorpion-goddesses who attended Isis seem to have their counterpart in the seven maidens who were associated with MARY in weaving the Veil of the Temple.

Osiris was raised from the dead by the spells of Isis, which she had learned from 'Thoth, but Jesus raised Himself from the dead. Again, Osiris had to do battle with the powers of the Underworld in order to maintain his life and position therein ; but Jesus shattered the bolts of the gates of hell, and tore down the doors, and vanquished Death and his six sons and Satan, and extinguished the fiery cauldrons, in order to save Adam and his posterity and take them out of hell. Isis appears in the judgement Hall of Osiris, presumably as co-judge with Osiris, but MARY only watches the judgement of the Dead so that she may in certain cases entreat Christ and the Father to show mercy. In one particular Isis and MARY the Virgin have a common fate ; the grave of each is unknown.


Here's my reference.

http://home.clara.net/ewfinc/cult-isis.htm
52 posted on 03/24/2004 5:58:55 PM PST by netmilsmom (God Bless Madison Lyn!)
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
Wow!
53 posted on 03/24/2004 6:00:02 PM PST by netmilsmom (God Bless Madison Lyn!)
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
That whole JPI thing is kind of strange.
54 posted on 03/24/2004 6:01:54 PM PST by netmilsmom (God Bless Madison Lyn!)
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To: gbcdoj
The Apparition at La Salette was approved by the Church in 1851. The message in its entirety is either genuine or not. No one has the option of discarding parts of the message which are too unpleasant.

I understand there was more than one version of the Secret floating around in the years afterward. Maybe the erroneous versions were the books condemned. However, I have in front of me a recently published copy purchased from Catholic Treasures of the secrets of LaSalette. It includes the Rome quote.
55 posted on 03/24/2004 6:39:27 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: gbcdoj
they knew full well that this See of St. Peter always remained unstained by all error,

IIRC, that statement is not true. At the time of the Arian heresy even the Pope had fallen into it. There was also a Pope who was excommunicated by his successor.

56 posted on 03/24/2004 6:42:33 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Pyro7480
***Isis isn't "real" in the sense that she said something, like Jesus actually said something. Either a pagan made the words up, or a demon said the original words of Isis.***

I agree. St Paul said:

"Do I mean then that a sacrifice offered to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God..."


But if this apparition was, in fact, quoting a demon then wouldn't that go against Church teaching?

If there were demons behind this then they are not going to come in and introduce some gross heresy. They would do it gradually - like I was talking about in my original post.

57 posted on 03/24/2004 6:48:38 PM PST by PetroniusMaximus
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To: PetroniusMaximus
We would have to see if Isis' words and Mary's words are "the same," instead of relying on a second or third-hand source.
58 posted on 03/24/2004 7:02:54 PM PST by Pyro7480 (Minister for the Conversion of Hardened Sinners,Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: Pyro7480; John Locke
***We would have to see if Isis' words and Mary's words are "the same," instead of relying on a second or third-hand source.***

Correct.

Maybe John Locke can point us to a reference.

59 posted on 03/24/2004 7:07:12 PM PST by PetroniusMaximus
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To: gbcdoj; Canticle_of_Deborah; Land of the Irish; autopsy; ultima ratio; Maximilian; Dajjal; ...
That quote from Melanie Calvat (not Our Lady!) is heretical, since it claims that the Apostolic See can err.

Just as a Pope can sin in other ways, he may also sin personally by becoming a formal heretic, apostate or a schismatic. As such he would NOT be protected from error, please note the strict limits of protection by the Holy Ghost:

TWENTIETH ECUMENICAL COUNCIL, THE VATICAN COUNCIL (1869-1870)

"Neque enim Petri successoribus Spiritus sanctus promissus est, ut eo revelante novam doctrinam patefacerent, sed ut eo assistente traditam per apostolos revelationem seu fidei depositum sancte custodirent et fideliter exponerent. (Constitutio Dogmatica Prima de Ecclesia Christi [Pastor Aeternus], cap. 4, "De Romani Pontificis Infallibili Magisterio")

"For the Holy Spirit was promised to the successors of Peter not so that they might, by His revelation, make known some new doctrine, but that, by His assistance, they might religiously guard and faithfully expound the revelation or Deposit of Faith transmitted by the Apostles."

If he were to espouse formal heresy, apostasy or schism BEFORE his election to the papacy it would be null, void and worthless as specifically stated by Pope Paul IV, see post #35 above:

CUM EX APOSTOLATUS OFFICIO, APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTION OF HIS HOLINESS POPE PAUL IV, 15TH FEBUARY 1559, (ROMAN BULLARIUM VOL. IV. SEC. I, PP. 354-357)

"6. In addition, [by this Our Constitution, which is to remain valid in perpetuity We enact, determine, decree and define:-]

that if ever at any time it shall appear that any Bishop, even if he be acting as an Archbishop, Patriarch or Primate; or any Cardinal of the aforesaid Roman Church, or, as has already been mentioned, any legate, or even the Roman Pontiff, prior to his promotion or his elevation as Cardinal or Roman Pontiff, has deviated from the Catholic Faith or fallen into some heresy:

(i) the promotion or elevation, even if it shall have been uncontested and by the unanimous assent of all the Cardinals, shall be null, void and worthless;"

The 1917 Code of Canon Law cites the above Constitution as one basis for the tacit and automatic resignation of an office. Please note that this section of the code deals with the nature of the office, the divine aspects, and is separate from the latter section of the code which deals with penalties.

Code of Canon Law (1917), Canon 188.4:

Canon 188: "Ob tacitam renuntiationem ab ipso iure admissam quaelibet officia vacant ipso facto et sine ulla declaratione, si clerus ... (4) a fide catholica publice defecerit."

Canon 188: "There are certain causes which effect the tacit resignation of an office, which resignation is accepted in advance by operation of law, and hence is effective without any declaration. These causes are: (4) if he has publicly fallen away from the Catholic faith."

For further examples:

Pope Innocent III (1198), Sermo 4:

"The Roman Pontiff has no superior but God. Who, therefore, could cast him out or trample him under foot – since of the pope it is said ‘gather thy flock into thy fold’? Truly, he should not flatter himself about his power, nor should he rashly glory in his honor and high estate, because the less he is judged by man, the more he is judged by God.

"Still the less can the Roman Pontiff glory [Minus dico] because he can be judged by men, or rather, can be shown to be already judged, if for example he should wither away into heresy; because he who does not believe is already judged.

"In such a case it should be said of him: ‘If salt should lose its savor, it is good for nothing but to be cast out and trampled under foot by men'."

St Robert Bellarmine, Doctor of the Church, "De Romano Pontifice", ("On the Roman Pontiff"), liber II, caput 30:

Est ergo quinta opinio vera, papam haereticum manifestum per se desinere esse papam et caput, sicut per se desinit esse christianus et membrum corporis Ecclesiae; quare ab, Ecclesia posse eum judicari et puniri. Haec est sententia omnium veterum Patrum, qui docent, haereticos manifestos mox amittere omnem jurisdictionem.

"Therefore, the true opinion is the fifth, according to which the Pope who is manifestly a heretic ceases by himself to be Pope and head, in the same way as he ceases to be a Christian and a member of the body of the Church; and for this reason he can be judged and punished by the Church. This is the opinion of all the ancient Fathers, who teach that manifest heretics immediately lose all jurisdiction.

St. Alphonsus de Liguori, Doctor of the Church, on the fate of a heretical pope:

"Del resto, si Dio permettesse che un papa fosse notoriamente eretico e contumace, egli cesserebbe d'essere papa, e vacherebbe il pontificato."

--"Verita della Fede", part 3, ch. 8, no. 10. In: Opere dommatiche di S. Alfonso de Liguori (Torino, G. Marietti, 1848), p. 720. (Opere di S. Alfonso Maria de Liguori, v. 8)

"For the rest, if God should permit that a Pope should become a notorious and contumacious heretic, he would cease to be Pope, and the pontificate would be vacant."

St. Francis de Sales, Doctor of the Church, on papal infallibility and heresy:

"En l'ancienne loy le grand pretre ne portait pas le rational si non quand il estoit revestu des habits pontificaux et qu'il entroit devant le Seigneur. Ainsi ne disons nous pas que le pape en ses opinions particulieres ne puisse errer comme fit Jean XXII, ou etre du tout heretique comme peut etre fut Honorius. Or quand il est heretique expres *ipso facto* il tombe de son grade hors de l'Eglise et l'Eglise le doit ou priver comme disent quelques uns, ou le declarer prive de son siege apostolique et dire comme fit St. Pierre: Episcopatum eius accipiat alter. Quand il erre en sa particuliere opinion il le faut enseigner, adviser, convaincre comme on fit a Jean XXII le quel tant s'en faut qu'il mourut opiniatre ou que pendant sa vie il determina aucune chose touchant son opinion, que pendant qu'il faysoit l'inquisition requise pour determiner en matiere de foy, il mourut, au recit de son successeur en l'Extravagante qui se commence *Benedictus Deus.*"

St. Francis de Sales, The Catholic Controversy (Tan Books), p. 388 (part II, art. VI, ch. 14)

"Under the ancient law the High Priest did not wear the Rational except when he was vested in the pontifical robes and was entering before the Lord. Thus we do not say that the Pope cannot err in his private opinions, as did John XXII; or be altogether a heretic, as perhaps Honorius was. Now when he is explicitly a heretic, he falls ipso facto from his dignity out of the Church, and the Church must either deprive him, as some say, or declare him deprived, of his Apostolic See, and must say as St. Peter did: Let another take his bishopric (Acts I). When he errs in his private opinion he must be instructed, advised, convinced; as happened with John XXII, who was so far from dying obstinate or from determining anything during his life concerning his opinion, that he died whilest he was making the examination which is necessary for determining in a matter of faith, as his successor declared in the *Extravagantes* which begins Benedictus Deus." (Ib. p. 305-306)

St. Thomas Aquinas, Doctor of the Church, on loss of jurisdiction by heretics and schismatics:

Summa, 2a 2ae, q. 39, art. 3. (Utrum schismatici habeant aliquam potestatem)

"...Potestas autem iurisdictionis est quae ex simplici iniunctione hominis confertur; et talis potestas non immobiliter adhaeret; unde in schismaticis et haereticis non manet; unde non possunt nec absolvere, nec excommunicare, nec indulgentias facere, aut aliquid huiusmodi; quod si fecerint, nihil est actum."

(Whether schismatics have any power.)

"...The power of jurisdiction, however [as opposed to the power of Orders, which he has just discussed], is that [power] which is conferred simply by the injunction of man; and this power does not adhere immovably; therefore it does not remain in schismatics and heretics. Hence they can neither absolve, nor excommunicate, nor grant indulgences, or anything of this sort. If they do this, the act is null."

JUAN CARDINAL DE TORQUEMADA [IOANNES DE TURRECREMATA], O.P. (1388-1468)

"By disobedience, the Pope can separate himself from Christ despite the fact that he is head of the Church, for above all, the unity of the Church is dependent upon its relationship with Christ. The Pope can separate himself from Christ either by disobeying the law of Christ, or by commanding something that is against the divine or natural law. by doing so, the Pope separates himself from the body of the Church because this body is itself linked to Christ by obedience. In this way, the Pope would, without doubt, fall into schism....

ST. ANTONINUS, O.P. (1389-1459), BISHOP AND THEOLOGIAN

"In the case in which the pope would become a heretic, he would find himself, by that fact alone and without any other sentence, separated from the Church. A head separated from a body cannot, as long as it remains separated, be head of the same body from which it was cut off.

"A pope who would be separated from the Church by heresy, therefore, would by that very fact itself cease to be head of the Church. He could not be a heretic and remain pope, because, since he is outside of the Church, he cannot possess the keys of the Church.", (Summa Theologica)

60 posted on 03/24/2004 7:08:35 PM PST by Viva Christo Rey
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