Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


1 posted on 03/26/2004 11:07:57 AM PST by CatherineSiena
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies ]


To: CatherineSiena
The Cardinal underlined that Archbishop Lefebvre had never founded a proper structure of his fraternity that could be considered as a concrete act of schism.

Who is this Cardinal? I read the article and it is unclear (not that this will make an ounce of difference to the SSPX haters).

2 posted on 03/26/2004 11:25:13 AM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: CatherineSiena; sandyeggo; american colleen
"There is only one Roman Rite", underlined the Cardinal verbally, "and this Roman Rite has different forms." So, according to him, the Ancient Rite is not a rite in its own right, but the Ancient Rite and the Novus Ordo are two forms of one and the same rite.

The Cardinal is pointing out that the Roman Rite has 3 forms - the Novus Ordo, the 1962 Missal and the Anglican-Use. From the EWTN library:

RITES

A Rite represents an ecclesiastical, or church, tradition about how the sacraments are to be celebrated. Each of the sacraments has at its core an essential nature which must be satisfied for the sacrament to be confected or realized. This essence - of matter, form and intention - derives from the divinely revealed nature of the particular sacrament. It cannot be changed by the Church. Scripture and Sacred Tradition, as interpreted by the Magisterium, tells us what is essential in each of the sacraments (2 Thes. 2:15). 

When the apostles brought the Gospel to the major cultural centers of their day the essential elements of religious practice were inculturated into those cultures. This means that the essential elements were clothed in the symbols and trappings of the particular people, so that the rituals conveyed the desired spiritual meaning to that culture. In this way the Church becomes all things to all men that some might be saved (1 Cor. 9:22).

There are three major groupings of Rites based on this initial transmission of the faith, the Roman, the Antiochian (Syria) and the Alexandrian (Egypt). Later on the Byzantine derived as a major Rite from the Antiochian, under the influence of St. Basil and St. John Chrysostom. From these four derive the over 20 liturgical Rites present in the Church today.

Western Rites and Churches
Immediately subject to the Supreme Pontiff as Patriarch of the West


ROMAN
(also called Latin)
The Church of Rome is the Primatial See of the world and the Patriarchal See of Western Christianity. Founded by St. Peter in 42 AD it was consecrated by the blood of Sts. Peter and Paul during the persecution of Nero (63-67 AD). It has maintained a continual existence since then and is the source of a family of Rites in the West. Considerable scholarship (such as that of Fr. Louis Boyer in Eucharist) suggests the close affinity of the Roman Rite proper with the Jewish prayers of the synagogue, which also accompanied the Temple sacrifices. While the origin of the current Rite, even in the reform of Vatican II, can be traced directly only to the 4th century, these connections point to an ancient apostolic tradition brought to that city that was decidedly Jewish in origin.

After the Council of Trent it was necessary to consolidate liturgical doctrine and practice in the face of the Reformation. Thus, Pope St. Pius V imposed the Rite of Rome on the Latin Church (that subject to him in his capacity as Patriarch of the West), allowing only smaller Western Rites with hundreds of years of history to remain. Younger Rites of particular dioceses or regions ceased to exist.

• Roman - The overwhelming majority of Latin Catholics and of Catholics in general. Patriarch of this and the other Roman Rites is the Bishop of Rome. The current Roman Rite is that of the 1969 Missale Romanum, to be published in a third edition in 2001.
- Missal of 1962 (Tridentine Mass) - Some institutes within the Roman Rite, such as the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter, have the faculty to celebrate the sacramental rites according to the forms in use prior to the Second Vatican Council. This faculty can also be obtained by individual priests from their bishop or from the Pontifical Council Ecclesia Dei
- Anglican Use - Since the 1980s the Holy See has granted some former Anglican and Episcopal clergy converting with their parishes the faculty of celebrating the sacramental rites according to Anglican forms, doctrinally corrected.
• Mozarabic - The Rite of the Iberian peninsula (Spain and Portugal) known from at least the 6th century, but probably with roots to the original evangelization. Beginning in the 11th century it was generally replaced by the Roman Rite, although it has remained the Rite of the Cathedral of the Archdiocese of Toledo, Spain, and six parishes which sought permission to adhere to it. Its celebration today is generally semi-private.
• Ambrosian - The Rite of the Archdiocese of Milan, Italy, thought to be of early origin and probably consolidated, but not originated, by St. Ambrose. Pope Paul VI was from this Roman Rite. It continues to be celebrated in Milan, though not by all parishes.
• Bragan - Rite of the Archdiocese of Braga, the Primatial See of Portugal, it derives from the 12th century or earlier. It continues to be of occasional use.
• Dominican - Rite of the Order of Friars Preacher (OP), founded by St. Dominic in 1215.
• Carmelite - Rite of the Order of Carmel, whose modern foundation was by St. Berthold c.1154.
• Carthusian - Rite of the Carthusian Order founded by St. Bruno in 1084. 

7 posted on 03/26/2004 11:38:24 AM PST by NYer (Prayer is the Strength of the Weak)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: CatherineSiena
"There is only one Roman Rite", underlined the Cardinal verbally, "and this Roman Rite has different forms." So, according to him, the Ancient Rite is not a rite in its own right, but the Ancient Rite and the Novus Ordo are two forms of one and the same rite.

The Cardinal took this as an occasion to tell the reason why there are such enormous restrictions for the celebration of the Ancient Rite at St Peter's Basilica: St Peter's basilica is the very heart of the Church, he explained to us, and for that, there shall only one rite be celebrated in this basilica, and this is the rite that is celebrated everywhere in the Universal Church. And that is the Novus Ordo. (These words seem to be somehow a self-contradiction to the Cardinal's own words according to which both, the Nous Ordo and the Ancient Rite, were not two different rites, but one and the same rite.

Am I confused or is the person who said these things confused?

8 posted on 03/26/2004 1:23:28 PM PST by johnb2004
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: CatherineSiena
His Eminence the Cardinal Prefect was not allowed to see me. My purpose there had to do with a local Austrian problem that the UV Austria had asekd me to bring to the Congregation of the Faith and which has no significance for the FIUV. I succeeded to present it to a person of the Cardinal's personal staff.

What is that all about? Cardinal Ratzinger wasn't "allowed" to see this guy? Is that a bad translation or just plain weird?

17 posted on 03/26/2004 4:17:38 PM PST by american colleen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: CatherineSiena; Canticle_of_Deborah
"The Cardinal underlined that Archbishop Lefebvre had never founded a proper structure of his fraternity that could be considered as a concrete act of schism."

Well the silver lining is that Rome seems to be settled on the "schism" matter, clearly seeing as we've said all along that WE'RE NOT IN ONE.

As Deborah indicated however, the foul-mouthed name-callers will continue to name-call with their foul mouths.

It makes them feel like good Catholics when their beating others over the head. Phariseeic finger pointing makes them feel valid and holy.

21 posted on 03/26/2004 4:41:43 PM PST by AAABEST (<a href="http://www.angelqueen.org">Traditional Catholicism is Back and Growing</a>)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: CatherineSiena; All
"the Ancient Rite and the Novus Ordo are two forms of one and the same rite."

Is it too much to ask the Vatican to be truthful? The Vatican tells these official lies, then demands we accept such falsehoods. The Novus Ordo is, in fact, not even a truly Catholic rite, it is thoroughly Protestant, very little different from the Lutheran Lord's Supper. The Holy See's refusal to admit the truth of this reveals nothing but its own profound dishonesty.
25 posted on 03/26/2004 5:05:03 PM PST by ultima ratio
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: CatherineSiena
He also said that the Holy See was quite annoyed by Bishop Fellay's press conference on February 2nd and the document published on ecumenism at that occasion by the FSPX.

That letter was a deliberate misrepresentation and mean-spirited slap in the face of the Vicar of Christ and demonstrated that the SSPX has no desire or intention of reconciling with the Holy Father.

27 posted on 03/26/2004 6:08:04 PM PST by Unam Sanctam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: CatherineSiena
Thank you for posting this article which proves yet again how bizarre things are inside the walls. I'm going away now to read some more of Sister Emmerich.
31 posted on 03/27/2004 8:52:36 AM PST by Siobhan (+Pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet+)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson