[Destro]

The Roman Empire whose capital was in Constantinople kept Islam back from Europe not the Crusades which weakened the Christian Empire. Greek Fire in a much earlier fight is the reason we don't speak Arabic. The Crusades were fought against an Islam ruled by Turkic and Kurdish tribes.

Greek fire spewing forth from Constantinople's navy kept the Arabs out of Europe.

[broadsword]

Oh, come on, Destro. That's just silly in its one-sided ignorance of history and uncharitable in its cold dismissal of the blood spent by the three great military orders of the Church.

I know the history of these orders like the back of my hand as it is a major study of mine. But I feel less than inclined to even begin presenting facts for you after that crass post.

Look, my brother, I love you and have always found your posts on the FR a friendly bastion of defense of our cmmon faith. I have considered you a brother-in-arms, but this matter seems a subject not broachable.

I had a Russian friend for several years, who insisted that Russia single-handedly won WWII and provided the USA with food and material for our salvation during that struggle. When something is THAT 180 degrees off and utterly contrary to the truth, what can be said?

Your post strikes me that way. I am sorry about that.

[wildandcrazyrussian]

You are right!

here is what I posted on another thread:

**********

I believe that there is a time for righteous anger when civilization itself is under mortal threat. After all, the Orthodox Roman Empire of Constantinople did not fall the first time it was attacked by Islamic forces in 717-718 AD, but beat them back with the aid of "Greek fire" and the Bulgars, and lasted another 735 years (until 1453 AD). The Islamic armies in 717 numbered 80,000 with tens of thousands more men on the 1,800 ships. Had the siege been successful, the entire course of human history would have changed for the worse. The battle of Poiters in 732 (just 14 years later!), when Christian forces defeated the Muslims in France, would have gone the other way with the arrival of hundreds of thousands of additional troops fresh from sacking and pillaging Eastern Europe and trying to destroy Christian civilization there. How long could the Germanic, Celtic, and Scandinavian areas have held out against emboldened Islamic warriors convinced even more that their deity was all-powerful?

Then, 250 years later, a future Prince Vladimir would never been able to send envoys to a Christian Constantinople and be impressed by heaven on earth in the Hagia Sophia... there might never have been a Christian Russia, and ALL of Europe might have been Islamicized just like the previously-Christian civilizations of northern Africa, the previously-Christian and Buddhist lands of central Asia, the previously-Jewish areas of Saudi Arabia, and on and on… So in fact there is nothing the least bit wrong with defending unto death the Christian civilization which is the only hope of the world, and why the Western world should be thankful to the Orthodox populations of Constantinople and the Balkans who absorbed the force of the Islamic invasions and kept the West safe, rather than being crudely dismissive of them.

[Antoninus]

The Roman Empire whose capital was in Constantinople kept Islam back from Europe not the Crusades which weakened the Christian Empire.

Hey, I've never had a problem giving the Greeks their due, particularly in the early days when they were basically alone in the fight against crusading Islam. Of course, the Eastern Empire might have lasted longer if not for the useless (in hindsight) offensives of Justinian and Heraclius and if not for the endless civil wars among rival eastern emperors.

But you have to admit--after Manzikert, Byzantium might not have made it out of the 12th century without the Crusaders taking some of the pressure off.

Greek Fire in a much earlier fight is the reason we don't speak Arabic. The Crusades were fought against an Islam ruled by Turkic and Kurdish tribes.

I know that. I was just being "colorful"...