L.A. cardinal says Order of the Mass draft needs major work

Catholic News Service ^ | May 12, 2004 | Cindy Wooden

[sinkspur]

"The danger is that that kind of new Roman Missal, if it were approved in such a stilted fashion, would simply not be used,"

Not so fast on the translation, not if the Americans, the Aussies, and the British bishops don't like it.

[gbcdoj]

His Eminence Cardinal Mahoney should get his priests to learn the meaning of obedience instead of worrying about the translation. The idea that he has a diocese full of priests who won't obey Rome is disturbing.

Both clergy and faithful, of whatever rite and dignity, both singly and collectively, are bound to submit to this power [of the Roman Pontiff] by the duty of hierarchical subordination and true obedience, and this not only in matters concerning faith and morals, but also in those which regard the discipline and government of the Church throughout the world. (Vatican I Council, Pastor aeternus cap. 3, 2)

[sinkspur]

Sounds like Mahoney's not the only one.

This translation was sent around for a reaction.

It appears Rome is getting a reaction, though not the one it wanted.

The translation will have to be changed.

[Unam Sanctam]

Is the more important value to have a more precise translation of Latin into English or is it more important to have a translation that helps people's prayer be nourished and deepened?

Why does he assume these are conflicting objectives? I think it is bogus to say that a faithful translation cannot "nourish and deepen" people's prayer while the unfaithful ICEL dreck currently used does. Watch for a continuing campaign by liberals to undermine Liturgiam Authenticam

[Desdemona]

He's just ticked off that no one consulted him.

What I saw was a definite improvement and if people can't get their mouths around the words, I recommend practicing tongue twisters and reading poetry out loud. It helps tremendously.

[Unam Sanctam]

The current ICEL language is execrable, in many cases not remotely similar to the Latin in meaning, and most certainly does NOT nourish me. I don't know what others think, but Mahoney is completely wrong to simply assume that everyone prefers the spirtitually flat and uninspiring ICEL dreck that we currently have. He does NOT speak for me. And yes, I do think accuracy of translation is more important than what Mahoney thinks is "nourishing".

[Land of the Irish]

"Following the (clerical sex abuse) scandal," Lucifer said, "the last thing our people need is to now disrupt the liturgy, which has been a source of nourishment and strength during this once easy journey towards my kingdom of Darkness, Hell".

[sinkspur]

Like the recently-released document on the Eucharist-- the first draft of which the world's bishops rejected--had to be changed.

This translation will likely be changed as well.

If the bishops don't like it, they won't enforce its use.

[gbcdoj]

If the bishops don't like it, they won't enforce its use.

Sounds like we need new bishops, not a new translation.

[Desdemona]

Sounds like we need new bishops, not a new translation.

We need both, actually.

[Maximilian]

Like the recently-released document on the Eucharist-- the first draft of which the world's bishops rejected--had to be changed. This translation will likely be changed as well.

I'm afraid you have hit the nail on the head. In fact, I said this very thing yesterday to gbcdoj that the new translation of the Mass would go through the exact same process as the new document on the Eucharist, and that it would end up with the exact same result.

[Unam Sanctam]

What is the big freakin' deal about translations being accurate? They should be accurate. The nonsense about it being necessary to change the words and the meaning to "acculturate" is simply a ruse to subtly change what is being taught in the liturgy, such as the systematic elimination of references to "spirit", etc.

[dsc]

"The translation will have to be changed."

To hell with that. Change the bishops who don't like it. there are a lot of toilets in America that need cleaning.

[dsc]

"acculturate" is simply a ruse to subtly change what is being taught in the liturgy"

Bingo. For some reason, I'm surprised to hear you say that, though.

[Unam Sanctam]

I don't recall saying anything to suggest that I am anything less than 100% supportive of Liturgiam Authenticam.

[rogator]

If Mahony and the other dissidents want to write their own Mass, let them do it. But to refer to the current ICEL drivel as a "translation" of the Roman Missal is a downright lie.
Their objection to a more accurate, faithful translation is consistent with their drive to decatholicise the liturgy.
These false shepherds are imposters, wittingly or unwittingly, doing the work of Satan.

[rogator]

"Cardinal Mahony said he agreed with several bishops who have said the parts of the Mass recited by the entire congregation should not be changed."

Time for us to start giving all our responses in Latin regardless of the language the priest is using.

[dsc]

"Time for us to start giving all our responses in Latin regardless of the language the priest is using."

I've tried that. It seems to upset the people around me.

[Arthur McGowan]

If Mahony, a member of the Satanist Bernardin wing of the American hierarchy, is against the new translation, it must be pretty good.