L.A. cardinal says Order of the Mass draft needs major work

Catholic News Service ^ | May 12, 2004 | Cindy Wooden

[B Knotts]

"bread that is bread to all the senses"

Y'know...that sounds like a lyric from an OCP hymnal.

[B Knotts]

In Bp. Vigneron's case, I think that might be a situation that is so out of whack that it calls for, shall we say, a somewhat less pastoral approach.

[fortunecookie]

Cardinal Mahony said, "This is obviously considered by everybody as a first draft." He wasn't consulted on this one; that makes it a 'draft'.

How dare they not consult him? Yep, as soon as he and Bishop Trautman, head of the liturgy committee (ugh), finish their revisions, they can get behind it. It must be good for them to dislike it so much.

[B Knotts]

Can you imagine the translation those two would come up with, left to their own devices?

[american colleen]

I guess, theoretically, Cardinal Mahony's 'clarifications' were not exactly incorrect in a way - however - stuff like that is what frustrates the faithful and makes them throw up their hands and walk away in confusion.

I don't know if the problem is too much education or what but the more some bishops and priests write, the more complicated and confusing is the simple faith that Jesus Christ taught.

Sometimes I think that some of us (both ordained and lay) just like to see themselves in print or hear themselves talking and hope that they will be remembered for imparting more wisdom than Himself imparted.

[ninenot]

Your argument is with the corrupt elements of the West, ninenot

Edited for precision of language.

[ninenot]

Can you imagine the translation those two would come up with, left to their own devices?

For practical purposes, we already have that--

Further deterioration is virtually un-imaginable.

[B Knotts]

Oh, I'm quite sure they could think of something. :-P

[fortunecookie]

Can you imagine the translation those two would come up with, left to their own devices? For practical purposes, we already have that--

Further deterioration is virtually un-imaginable.

Here in Trautman's kingdom, I suspect he can sink even lower, if only just a little. He never fails to slink. We don't have goddess banners here yet, afterall. He routinely thumbs his nose at Rome. Actually he has his lackeys do the thumbing, he doesn't deign to speak to them himself, regarding himself as their superior, uniquely posited to rule his people. We hear negative Rome comments routinely, and when asked, we are told it comes from the top. He actually demanded our obedience in a newletter that required us to disregard Rome's ruling on kneeling. We were to show our brotherhood and unity and respect to him, our direct superior, by not kneeling after communion.

Besides, now the big whine is 'how will the people adjust to these big changes'??? Mind you, they have worked hard to make many unauthorized changes to Catholicism as it's practiced here in our diocese in just a decade or so, changing the way we worship and how our churches are adorned and what is proper for worship. And those changes were thrust upon us (we had better go along, we were warned, many left the faith altogether), but now, these particular changes, well, humphh. He just won't do it, for the good of his flock.

[fortunecookie]

Can you imagine the translation those two would come up with, left to their own devices? For practical purposes, we already have that--

Further deterioration is virtually un-imaginable.

Here in Trautman's kingdom, I suspect he can sink even lower, if only just a little. He never fails to slink. We don't have goddess banners here yet, afterall. He routinely thumbs his nose at Rome. Actually he has his lackeys do the thumbing, he doesn't deign to speak to them himself, regarding himself as their superior, uniquely posited to rule his people. We hear negative Rome comments routinely, and when asked, we are told it comes from the top. He actually demanded our obedience in a newletter that required us to disregard Rome's ruling on kneeling. We were to show our brotherhood and unity and respect to him, our direct superior, by not kneeling after communion.

Besides, now the big whine is 'how will the people adjust to these big changes'??? Mind you, they have worked hard to make many unauthorized changes to Catholicism as it's practiced here in our diocese in just a decade or so, changing the way we worship and how our churches are adorned and what is proper for worship. And those changes were thrust upon us (we had better go along, we were warned, many left the faith altogether), but now, these particular changes, well, humphh. He just won't do it, for the good of his flock.

[Polycarp IV]

the dangers of disruption

If you glance at the program of the Religious Education 2004 Congress over which Los Angeles Cardinal Roger Mahony presided, you'll find a virtual strip mall of boutique Eucharistic offerings. There's a Hawaiian-theme liturgy and a Hispanic-theme liturgy and a Nigerian-theme liturgy and a Vietnamese-theme liturgy and a Young Adult-theme liturgy and a Contemplative-theme liturgy -- every variant, apparently, except a Calvary theme. Of course this is the diocese that introduced to its cathedral a 50-foot dancing dragon "to ward off evil spirits and usher in good fortune in the Chinese New Year."

So how does Cardinal Mahony respond to the draft of a revised translation of the Roman Missal?

"The last thing our people need is to now disrupt the liturgy, which has been a source of nourishment and strength during this difficult journey."

Words fail me.

[photo shows worshipers nourished and strengthened by the Closing Liturgy of the 1999 RE Congress]

[Polycarp IV]

Here in Trautman's kingdom

Ahem...That's Troutperson

We must use inclusive language, mustn't we?

[fortunecookie]

Here in Trautman's kingdom

Ahem...That's Troutperson

We must use inclusive language, mustn't we?

Hee hee. Excellent point. My bad, my post was fraught with pronouns - oh, the horror - identifying our bishop as a male. Forgive me, all.

[johnb2004]

Which one in the pic is mahony?

[B Knotts]

coffee | nose > keyboard