L.A. cardinal says Order of the Mass draft needs major work

Catholic News Service ^ | May 12, 2004 | Cindy Wooden

[johnb2004]

"I pray that at some point, the Vatican throws off its fear of heterodox schism, and opens up a can of whoop-a$$ on these guys."

A thousand amens.

[B Knotts]

BTW, apart from possibly toning down the language on the use of girl altar boys, what else was changed in Redemptionis Sacramentum?

It still makes it very clear that the abuse of habitual use of extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion must end.

So, the AmChurchers lost on that one, at least.

[B Knotts]

Another classic flashback: Pain healed, EWTN approved, Angelica says - Mother Angelica and her controversial TV network

"I've been hearing about it over the Internet, from people suggesting that Mother Angelica was healed because she took on Cardinal Mahony," said Capuchin Fr. Gregory Coiro, director of media relations for the Los Angeles archdiocese. Coiro has been acting as Mahony's spokesperson in his controversy with Angelica.

[johnb2004]

The problem is local priests and bishops just ignore the Vatican directives. To quote Cardinal George, whom I am not that fond of, when the USCCB issues a paper it is dogma and when the Vatican issues dogma, it is a paper to these bishops and priests.

[johnb2004]

We all hope and pray you are correct about this.

[ninenot]

What in heaven's name does common sense have to do with this?

[ninenot]

In recognition of your daughter's capabilities, I will amend the post to sophomore 6th-grader.

[AnAmericanMother]

LOL!

[Cicero]

It's noticeable that Cardinal Mahoney gives not a single example of what he means by awkward or stilted translation.

The biggest change is from "We believe" to "I believe" in the Creed. Two to one that this is the single change that he finds most unacceptable. The liberals have a big stake in "we believe," and if that change remains it will leave a lot of egg on their faces after 40 years of arguing why "we believe" is better.

I read the changes, and if anything they didn't go far enough. "Pro multis" is still mistranslated, and "fratres" is translated "brothers and sisters." Latin had a word for sisters, "sorores." They didn't use it because in every western language "brothers" is understood in this context to mean everyone: men, women, and children. So it was in English until the Thought Police decided to change it.

[ninenot]

I pray that at some point, the Vatican throws off its fear of heterodox schism, and opens up a can of whoop-a$$ on these guys.

For this eventuality the TTGC stands prepared, ready, and capable.

Firewood? Check.

Kerosene? Check

Ropes? CHeck

Sackcloth? Twenty wagonloads, check

Bustard, how is the retro-engineering progressing on the Rack, the Iron Maiden, and etc.???

[ninenot]

FWIW, I spoke yesterday with a very solid, very educated Catholic friend who had only last week participated in a small discussion group event at which Cdl. George was in attendance and actively engaged.

My friend reports that the Cardinal was visibly pained when the problems of his Diocese were mentioned--and at one point stated that he has to live a "bizarre" life [in attempting to uphold the teachings of the Church yet manage affairs for some smooth continuity in Chicago.]

My friend was not comforted by George's comment--but was reassured that George knows what's going on--and is not in a position to do too much about it---YET.

[B Knotts]

BWAHAHAHA! ROFL

[B Knotts]

He has a tough job.

Imagine what the next Archbishop of Los Angeles will have to deal with.

[Deo volente]

Mahony: "...the last thing our people need is to now disrupt the liturgy, which has been a source of nourishment and strength during this difficult journey."



SO WHY MUST WE NOW ALL STAND THROUGHOUT COMMUNION HERE IN LOS ANGELES?

I call that a major disruption of the liturgy.

As for the liturgy being a "source of nourishment and strength", nothing could be further from the truth in this besieged archdiocese. With liturgical novelties abounding, and churches being wreckovated, Mass is more often a source of confusion and anger.

He is correct about "this difficult journey", though. I'm counting down the days until his 75th birthday, when the journey will get a little easier.

[johnb2004]

He is an enigma to me. My chief observation is that George is a politician first and foremost. I recently heard him on Keating's radio show. Caller after caller tried to pin him down on orthodox concerns, They got the polite shaft. He should take a page from the new guy in AZ and clean house. Let the traitors within walk out.

[ninenot]

Perhaps that is the best course--but it's not the one George has selected. Chicago, like Milwaukee, is a heavily North-European town and thus more liberal in its philosophies than, say, Phoenix.

I also suspect that neither George nor Dolan (Mke) has quite enough traction with the faithful to pull off the coup at this point in time.

Last, not least, they both need priests to offer Mass and the sacraments. Although it's easy to say "who cares?" it's not quite so easy to implement. People don't like to hear that there will be only two Masses on Sunday because 30% of the priests were fired or quit.

Remember the last line of Canon Law is something about 'the salvation of souls is paramount.' I think these Bishops have figured out that having Masses is better, in the long run, than NOT having Masses.

Personally, I prefer the TTGC alternative: send the heretics to the stake and let the chips fall where they may. I suppose that's not exactly "pastoral."

[rogator]

I used to equate Mahoney to Cranmer in my own mind. I now realize that this is an insult to the comparative orthodoxy and intellect of Cranmer.

[johnb2004]

I do not wish to argue with you. I am not in their positions, but that does not mean that my view is wrong and their view is right. If I thought they were actually acting out of obedience to the Church I would accept the view you are articulating, but I am not convinced that is why they act as they do.

Although it's easy to say "who cares?" it's not quite so easy to implement. People don't like to hear that there will be only two Masses on Sunday because 30% of the priests were fired or quit.

That is the crux, isn't it? The people do not want to hear not to contracept either and so no one tells them the truth. What a shame.