L.A. cardinal says Order of the Mass draft needs major work

Catholic News Service ^ | May 12, 2004 | Cindy Wooden

[dsc]

"People don't like to hear"

Uhhhh...so?

[AnAmericanMother]

Cranmer was an odd bird. He waffled back and forth, eventually coming down on the Protestant side (at his execution).

But he lived in difficult times - with threats of burning at the stake from both sides of the great controversy. Not everyone can face the possibility of disgrace and a traitor's death with the courage of St. Thomas More. And Cranmer died bravely and with panache, which I somehow don't see Mahoney doing.

[johnb2004]

Tell it to ninenot.

[sinkspur]

Perhaps Rome will suggest they read the Missale Romanum in Latin instead.

Rome can suggest anything.

[rogator]

"Rome can suggest anything."

According to the actions of many/most of our "bishops" anything Rome says/directs is a suggestion.

[NeoCaveman]

According to the actions of many/most of our "bishops" anything Rome says/directs is a suggestion.

Why doesn't AmChurch just declare a formal schism already. Instead of just being in a de-facto one.

[Unam Sanctam]

Sorry, "acculturate" = "inculturate"

[Notwithstanding]

sink, every so often your posts make it clear that you are an enemy of the Church.

Its just that simple.

Your words speak for themselves.

I will always make note that you are a heretic to all who post here on Catholic threads.

[ninenot]

Please note my tagline affiliation.

AFAIC, I'm ready to commence the auto-da-fe in Chicago at the drop of a hat--given my location, I'd rather begin in Milwaukee...

[ninenot]

"Rome can say anything", quoth the Americanist.

It's clear that about 40% of the American Bishops will disobey. That's how the road to Hell got paved with the skulls of Bishops.

The current crop of skulls will be used to pave the sidewalks, I suppose. There are a LOT of skulls available.

[Notwithstanding]

some minds are so "open" that their skulls are not even useful for paving that road you mentioned as using these skulls would create pot holes

[ArrogantBustard]

The dungeon is fully stocked and ready for action.

[cebadams]

The original thread on the draft new missal is here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1127329/posts

I took all the jpeg images and created a single pdf for easy off-line viewing. The pdf is rather larger --- 2.5mb but it can be downloaded from my site here:

http://home.comcast.net/~cebadams/ICEL-Translation.pdf

[sinkspur]

sink, every so often your posts make it clear that you are an enemy of the Church.

Let everyone note how kind and wonderful you are, notwithstanding.

You haven't a clue, bub.

Just wait and see if the translation is approved by Rome. We do want it to be approved by Rome, don't we?

Note this:

If the American, Australian, and UK bishops object to the translation, the translation will be redone.

[RFT1]

It seems Cardinal George has focused on things he can change, such as reform of the Archdiocean seminary, and starting a quasi traditional order(that is ordaining tow priests next week), but the process is slow.

The Bishop I really feel sorry for is Bp. Vingeron of Oakland. He inherrited the equivlent of a house that has been so trashed for so long that even beginning to clean it will be a task taking years.

[Desdemona]

Cucumber sandwiches under construction.

One note, though. I still think a good tablespoon of fresh horseradish would do wonders. Although, it won't be ready to be harvested until about August. I have the family recipe. HOT HOT HOT

[sinkspur]

"Rome can say anything", quoth the Americanist.

In this case, it's not just American, but Brit, and Aussie bishops, who are questioning the translation.

Your argument is with the West, ninenot.

[Desdemona]

I also suspect that neither George nor Dolan (Mke) has quite enough traction with the faithful to pull off the coup at this point in time.

Are they both building from the ground up and working behind the scenes more?

[Deo volente]

"Anyone remember Cardinal Mahony's "document on the Eucharist" about which Mother Angelica had a thing or two to say a while back?"



Yes, I do, and it was a dreadful thing. Among other things, Mahony called for using "bread that is bread to all the senses" (invalid matter, anyone?)
(And a 6th grader could have written a better sentence.)

He also labored to explain the meaning of Holy Communion with this bizarre construction,
"The Body of Christ comes forward to receive the Body of Christ."

As if we members of the Mystical Body were the same thing as the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ!

I can see why Mother Angelica had a fit over this pile of gibberish.

And the only reference to the Real Presence throughout the entire long document (these documents are ALWAYS long and tedious) was a footnote mentioning the doctrine of Transubstantiation. And he only put that in the second, revised version, after all the furor caused by the first draft.
There's never a mention of the Holy Sacrifice, only the "liturgy". Everything is "liturgy" these days.

[rogator]

"There's never a mention of the Holy Sacrifice, only the "liturgy". "
"The Body of Christ comes forward to receive the Body of Christ."

Its not so much that these deviant bishops don't like the translation, it's that they don't like the Catholic Mass and want to write their own. Their mass would be free as much as possible from concepts such as Sacrifice and Real Presence and would worship the "assembly" rather than the Deity.
No wonder Mel Gibson has his own chapel. God save us all from these deviant bishops.