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To: pro Athanasius; gbcdoj; sinkspur
Was Athanasius illigal and wrong because he went into other Bishops diocese when he was kicked out of his own and disobeyed the Pope? 80 percent of the bishops had apostatized and the Pope Liberious signed the semi Arian Creed and excommunicated Athansius see last section.

1) St. Athanasius didn't disobey the Pope.
2) Pope St. Liberius never signed any semi-Arian creeds.
3) Pope St. Liberius never excommunicated St. Athanasius except in some Arian inspired interpolations to some books.
4) Pope St. Liberius was universally praised as completely Orthodox by his contemporaries and sucessors - St. Basil, St. Ambrose, Pope St. Damasus, etc.
5) 80% of the Bishops did not apostasize - that is a complete exaggeration, rather like St. Jerome's rhetorical flourish that the "whole world awoke and groaned to find itself Arian".
6) Pope St. Liberius is considered a Saint by the Catholic Church.

But why let the historical facts stand in the way of a good yarn to support modern day disobedience?

Take it up with Trent and Pius VI who said that although the Church has the right to change how the sacraments are dispensed it doesn’t have the right to create a New Rite newer than 200 years old. This is found in Trent Session 7 Canon 13 on the "Sacraments in General:""If anyone says that the received and approved rites customarily used in the Catholic Church for the solemn administration of the Sacraments can be changed into other new rites by any pastor in the Church whosoever, let him be anathema."

Your quotation is extraordinarily faulty, not surprisingly, so much as to change its meaning.

CANON XIII.-If any one saith, that the received and approved rites of the Catholic Church, wont to be used in the solemn administration of the sacraments, may be contemned, or without sin be omitted at pleasure by the ministers, or be changed, by every pastor of the churches, into other new ones; let him be anathema.

The canon condemns the "laissez faire" attitude towards Sacramental administration, where everyone goes and does his own thing as he sees fit (rather what the SSPX advocates). It has nothing to do with the power of the Pope to reorder the sacramental rites. Especially considering that the Pope proceeded to do just that in the years subsequent to Trent by imposing the Curial Roman Missal, Breviary, and Ritual on the entire Church, while abolishing all the medieval rites.

136 posted on 07/16/2004 6:51:51 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Hermann the Cherusker

"...where everyone goes and does his own thing as he sees fit (rather what the SSPX advocates)."

That is far from true of the SSPX Hermann. The Modern Church though.... Visit http://www.traditio.com/nos.htm for the pictures.


142 posted on 07/16/2004 7:00:07 AM PDT by narses (If you want ON or OFF my Catholic Ping List email me. +)
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To: Hermann the Cherusker

Wrong. This is revisionist nonsense.


182 posted on 07/16/2004 8:46:52 AM PDT by ultima ratio
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