Posted on 09/20/2004 7:38:56 AM PDT by NYer
I just saw what amounted to you saying God wills men to be damned. I accept your retraction, if that's what it was.
As concerns rash judgment, what evidence do you have that FrankWild is a "schismatic," as you claim? I saw only one comment from that fellow on this entire thread.
Vatican I: On the permanence of the primacy of blessed Peter in the Roman pontiffs
1. That which our lord Jesus Christ, the prince of shepherds and great shepherd of the sheep, established in the blessed apostle Peter, for the continual salvation and permanent benefit of the Church, must of necessity remain for ever, by Christ's authority, in the Church which, founded as it is upon a rock, will stand firm until the end of time [45]. 2. For no one can be in doubt, indeed it was known in every age that the holy and most blessed Peter, prince and head of the apostles, the pillar of faith and the foundation of the Catholic Church, received the keys of the kingdom from our lord Jesus Christ, the savior and redeemer of the human race, and that to this day and for ever he lives and presides and exercises judgment in his successors the bishops of the Holy Roman See, which he founded and consecrated with his blood [46].
3. Therefore whoever succeeds to the chair of Peter obtains by the institution of Christ himself, the primacy of Peter over the whole Church. So what the truth has ordained stands firm, and blessed Peter perseveres in the rock-like strength he was granted, and does not abandon that guidance of the Church which he once received [47]. 4. For this reason it has always been necessary for every Church--that is to say the faithful throughout the world--to be in agreement with the Roman Church because of its more effective leadership. In consequence of being joined, as members to head, with that see, from which the rights of sacred communion flow to all, they will grow together into the structure of a single body [48].
5. Therefore, if anyone says that it is not by the institution of Christ the lord himself (that is to say, by divine law) that blessed Peter should have perpetual successors in the primacy over the whole Church; or that the Roman Pontiff is not the successor of blessed Peter in this primacy: let him be anathema.
* the sppx supporters routinely trash the Pope as not being Catholic, of destoying Tradition, of promulgating a mass that offends God...blah, blah, blah.
If you have refuted those who are heretical in regards to the primacy and permanency of the Pope and that it will remain firm until the end of time, congratulations. You are a defender of the Faith.
Please send me a link to where it was you refuted the heresy of those who support the sspx.
And since when does a Roman Rite need to be personally accepted by each SSPX'r in order for it to be valid?
Re: "And STILL they are the chosen people."
Remember a father punishes his older boys harder than the youngest as an example and for the benefit of all his children. There is a hell and there will be people there. Christ is the door and no one goes to heaven except through Him.
The Pope surely knows more about the situation than those who presume otherwise.
How do traditionalists discern the difference between novelty and tradition? Easy. If it has not been handed-down from the past, it is a novelty. No pope in history, for instance, has ever conducted anything comparable to Assisi I and II. That this Pope has done so is clearly a novelty. No Pope has ever fabricated a Mass by means of a committee. That Paul VI has done this by intituting the Novus Ordo is clearly a novelty. The idea that I "become the pope" for saying something so obvious is absurd. Nor do traditionalists invent any truths themselves--they follow practices and beliefs which have been handed-down to them by preconciliar popes and councils.
B.S. I have have been to these services (as a spectator not a participant).
By the way, if it was a lie it would be sinful. Typical neo-catholic, violation of one of the Ten Commandments "borders on the sinful"!
It only need to have the proper form, matter and intent...which the ICEL version does not. It's invalid and you waste your time going to it.
Individual confession is the rule but if you think that the Novus Ordo doesn't abuse General Absolution, you are living in a fantasy world.
I will ask you the same thing I asked Mershon: Would you also agree, then, that all the confessions heard by the Schismatic Orthodox Churches are invalid, as the priests lack proper jurisdiction?
For this reason it has always been necessary for every Church--that is to say the faithful throughout the world--to be in agreement with the Roman Church because of its more effective leadership.
Agreement over matters of what? Oh, wait, don't answer that - it might make it conditional and ruin your whole argument.
I'm curious to see your reply to my Schismatic Orthodox question. I did like your story, though.
Obedience in a religious institution is owed to a superior unless something has been commanded which would harm the Church or would do harm to souls, in which case such a command would be illegitimate. An example of the latter would be JPII's command to Archbishop Lefebvre not to consecrate--a command deliberately intended to destroy once and for all the ancient Mass. Bishop Fellay's command to this priest, on the other hand, was wholly legitimate and ought to have been obeyed. Your confusion is not uncommon among pope-worshipers and is due to the fantasy that because of their high office, popes may command whatever they wish. This is not true. Even popes are limited--from above, not from below. No pope may command what is contrary to Divine Law.
I asked if you have an example of an instance where you refuted the heresy of the sppx re. the Dogmatic Teachings of Vatican I. Are you searching for one?
"Remember that if you cannot get to a true (sic) Catholic Mass celebrated by a good (sic) traditional priest, you should not attend the New Mass or the Indult Mass, and this even if it is the only traditional Mass available".
There is nothing insane about my perspective. The pope does and says much that is unCatholic, that is novel and unorthodox. What is scandalous and insane is the attitude of people like yourself who wish to deny the obvious. What is Catholic about praying with animists and kissing the Koran? These are the really scandalous actions, not my telling the truth about them.
For example, the Society, presumes to set itself up as what many consider a virtual counter-church & magisterium: in addition to employing private judgment to determine what is and what is not Catholic, the Society presumes the competence to annull marriages without the permission of the Pope and bishops, it confirms Catholic young people without permission, and alleges that the sacraments of the Roman Catholic Church are invalid or dangerously dubious. It also reportedly brings in much revenue by exploiting every real or imagined problem in the Church to its own advantage. The Society has also reportedly unilaterally imposed censures on lay persons and attempted to defame those priests who have left their ranks.
Well, I don't know you "Old South" obfuscator. My comment was about invalid confessions that don't take.
The three churches where I go to confession do not have face-to-face as an option; as if it would be better to have invalid confessions behind a screen rather than valid ones "face-to-face" anyway.
Sometimes, the Sat. morning line is 2 tto 3 hours long. Besides, most of my friends would not consider me a "Novus Ordo" folk. I happen to be Catholic, and would prefer to go to the Traditional Latin Mass, and believe it is objectively a fuller representation of the Faith.
And as for your subtle, hidden innuendos... Do they teach you that at the SSPX chapel?
"Faith, hope and charity. And the greatest of these is charity."
How traditional is that?
I would say no, because the Greek Orthodox don't claim to be united with the Catholic Church.
Nice try though.
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