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To: MarMema
Kosta I sincerely doubt that the priest ( not the church) committed a sin in His name

That places the priest (a sinner) above the Church.

The biggest problem with Orthodoxy today is that far too many people become much like you seem to be recently

So, it's not your place to determine if the priest did something wrong by excommunicating a woman suspected of being "unclean" for three years. but it is your place to say that I am a problem?

What happens in life is that sometimes people make mistakes

Every day, MarMema, not just sometimes. Even when you don't think you are.

Some have had experiences in Orthodox churches which did not leave one with great feelings afterward

They must be far and few in between, and I certainly have not experienced anything like that. I have encountered some arrogance and pride, but then who is without it?

I personally see and hear priests who come out from the altar and bow to the parishioners asking forgiveness for their sins

That's very kind of him. My point. Perhaps he should include his as well?

Looking for perfection outside themselves but forgetting to glance occasionally in the mirror and see their own imperfections

I hold the Church and clergy to higher standards. You should too. I do not think the Body and Blood of Christ is an Orthodox prerogative. That's not asking for perfection, MarMema. When I say the Church doesn't save us, God does, I reiterate that we are not perfect lest we should forget and begin to act as if we are. The Church is good at preaching the word of God but not living it, and that goes for the clergy and laity.

We are hiding behind man-made rituals as if they were something holy. We are hiding behind physical signs as if they are something we own and others can't have. That's not what Jesus taught.

You need healing, imo, and badly

Wow! Exorcism no doubt? Thank you, doctor. Now I know. As long as you know that, should I quote you from above, "it is not my place to determine this anyway....nor is it yours, even if you think so," lest we misunderstand each other. You seem to be perfectly at home (aka it is your place) to determine what I lack.

I think you have never broken with you Catholic mindset, where pray, pay and obey is the rule. I am sorry, MarMema, it must be comforting to feel driven by someone else, but I prefer to do the driving myself. I question, because I believe. I see Christ on the one hand and the Church on the other. When the Church begins to live in Christ as much as it talks Christ, I am sure I will feel closer. I doubt that it will be any time soon.

481 posted on 12/18/2004 12:08:17 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50
I hold the Church and clergy to higher standards. You should too.

But I do not. That would be clericalism.

483 posted on 12/18/2004 12:19:51 AM PST by MarMema
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To: kosta50
When the Church begins to live in Christ as much as it talks Christ

How would you know? Which parish have you attended regularly over the last few years?

484 posted on 12/18/2004 12:20:54 AM PST by MarMema
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To: kosta50
I personally see and hear priests who come out from the altar and bow to the parishioners asking forgiveness for their sins

That's very kind of him. My point. Perhaps he should include his as well?

Um. Kosta. That is what they are doing. Asking the parishioners to forgive them for their sins. Have you not been to liturgy in a long time that you could follow?

The clergy come out and face the parishioners and say "Forgive me my brothers and sisters, and pray for me, a sinner".

485 posted on 12/18/2004 12:23:17 AM PST by MarMema
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To: kosta50
but I prefer to do the driving myself.

In the Orthodox church I think we also do the driving ourselves. We just don't drive alone on empty roads. In the dark.

486 posted on 12/18/2004 12:25:08 AM PST by MarMema
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To: kosta50
I do not think the Body and Blood of Christ is an Orthodox prerogative.

You cannot take the act of receiving the Mysteries out of the liturgy as if it were a lone thing. The entire service is an act of thanksgiving and worship - of a united community. Dissection is of a western mindset.

487 posted on 12/18/2004 12:28:39 AM PST by MarMema
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To: kosta50
You seem to be perfectly at home (aka it is your place) to determine what I lack.

Your bitterness, anger, and accusations are, hmmm, of Christ? You think? Or do you not see those things in yourself?

499 posted on 12/18/2004 12:52:35 AM PST by MarMema
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To: kosta50
We are hiding behind physical signs as if they are something we own and others can't have. That's not what Jesus taught.

Which physical signs are you referring to here, Kosta?

501 posted on 12/18/2004 12:58:15 AM PST by MarMema
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