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To: Unam Sanctam; Land of the Irish; TradicalRC
I guess you would prefer the post-Christian European model

No. I--and, I suspect, LOTI--prefer Christian monarchy, the last significant example of which (the Austro-Hungarian empire) was destroyed thanks in part to the United States in 1918.

Modern Europe is indeed a mess, but that is largely a result of the abolition of monarchies and rejection of traditional political and social values which began with the French Revolution and was virtually completed by World War I, though Rome's apparent surrender to the modern world at Vatican II made things worse.

Traditionalists (or, in my case, their non-Catholic sympathizers) are sometimes accused of claiming that everything was perfect before the Council. Please note that as a monarchist I am obviously aware that the world's problems did not begin in 1962. But Vatican II, with its implication that the Church to a certain extent approved of the great upheavals of the 18th and 20th centuries, did not help, to say the least. And now we see a prominent Cardinal claiming that the American system is preferable to the old European ideal of a Catholic state, a position which Leo XIII condemned.

12 posted on 12/12/2004 3:04:43 PM PST by royalcello
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To: royalcello
Modern Europe is indeed a mess, but that is largely a result of the abolition of monarchies

Democratic states, with open trade, do not make war on each other.

You can't say the same about monarchies, can you?

And now we see a prominent Cardinal claiming that the American system is preferable to the old European ideal of a Catholic state, a position which Leo XIII condemned.

Even Catholic states fomented war; in fact, Catholic states were little better than their secular counterparts when it came to aggression.

I'd have no problem with the British model, where the monarch is a mere figurehead. Modern states can no longer entrust power to a single unchecked individual, Catholic or otherwise.

16 posted on 12/12/2004 3:37:41 PM PST by sinkspur ("It is a great day to be alive. I appreciate your gratitude." God Himself.)
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To: royalcello; Unam Sanctam
No. I--and, I suspect, LOTI--prefer Christian monarchy, the last significant example of which (the Austro-Hungarian empire) was destroyed thanks in part to the United States in 1918.

You are correct, royalcello. Unam gave me a choice between two evils, neither of which I choose as "models".

19 posted on 12/12/2004 4:15:26 PM PST by Land of the Irish (Tradidi quod et accepi)
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To: royalcello
And now we see a prominent Cardinal claiming that the American system is preferable to the old European ideal of a Catholic state, a position which Leo XIII condemned.

Not only that, but Ratzinger is the Prefect of Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (Congregation formerly known as the Holy Office). Not a good sign.

135 posted on 12/12/2004 9:30:07 PM PST by ELS
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