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To: The_Reader_David; Agrarian; FormerLib; kosta50
Great post, Kosta.

I would just like to dwell on the particular point that renders the whole thing laughable and preposterous. She admits that "...the Romanians in Malainitsa might have broken some formal legal provisions concerning the need for an approval...".
Might have?! Well, they obviously did go against the law. During Miloshevich's reign, they probably would've gotten away with it. Not today. Serbia (especially the bigger cities) has a huge problem with the so-called "wild construction" (rampant illegal const.) and it was about time the Government did something about it. For example, there was this guy who had built a family home atop a residential building in downtown Belgrade! I kid you not!

There is no way the permit was denied on the basis of ethnicity. That is preposterous. There are dozens of Romanian churches across the Serbian northeast (especially in Banat) and one more church -- an Orthodox one, at that! --- wouldn't hurt anybody. For Christ's sake, Serbia (its taxpayers, actually) subsidizes every religion on its territory! And this is the thanks Serbia gets. Imagine if Serbia followed the example of the Western states and cut off all the financial support to the religious/cultural/ethnic/minority groups living in Serbia. I can't imagine what would happen.

Furthermore, "...such a requirement for them is unreasonable because nobody in the village was ever demanded to obtain such an approval for a private building, as it is usually the case in the countryside."

Now, if there's a need for a Romanian church in the village, I bet there's a large number/percentage of Romanians living there. Have they ever had a problem with the local zoning commission? The above paragraph says they have not. Case closed, as far as I am concerned.

Imagine if everybody started building whatever they wanted, wherever they wanted.

These people should learn to respect the laws of the country they live in and get over themselves. And not just the Romanians -- everybody who lives there! I am sick of these yahoos whining about having to respect the law.

9 posted on 01/27/2005 9:37:56 AM PST by Banat ("You've got two empty 'alves of coconut, and you're banging 'em together!")
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To: Banat; kosta50
Is blowing up a cross equal to demolishing a church?
Does it really matter how a person or object dies/gets destroyed?

Again, some of you guys forget what's about, the cult object involved in between both CHRISTIAN sides and deal with the minor thing of how better could the Romanians have written that petition (?!?)

Is this the lawful Serbia some of you know?

Serbia parties called 'mafia'-riddled
Nicholas Wood IHT -- Tuesday, September 14, 2004
http://www.iht.com/articles/538687.html



Serbia Faces International, Domestic Pressures to Improve Foreign Policy
Barry Wood - Belgrade - 18 Oct 2004, 12:58 UTC

http://www1.voanews.com/article.cfm?objectID=7A74E8D9-E386-4B4E-ABB9D984EE03D618&title=Serbia%20Faces%20International%2C%20Domestic%20Pressures%20to%20Improve%20Foreign%20Policy&catOID=45C9C78C-88AD-11D4-A57200A0CC5EE46C&categoryname=Europe



Unfortunately for the good people or bishops that you know, the Serb Orthodox Church has its sins.

http://www.usip.org/pubs/specialreports/early/pesic/pesic3.html
_____________quote_________________________________________

The main role in defining the situation in Kosovo was taken over by an organized movement of Serbs from Kosovo that had the support of the Orthodox Church and the Serbian intelligentsia. These Serbs' demands were almost always aimed at constitutional changes that would establish a united Serbia, but they endeavored even more to change the ethnic domination in Kosovo. Their main interpretation of the "Serbian tragedy" in Kosovo was that the ethnic Albanians had gained control through the 1974 constitution, and that the only way to stop the "ethnic cleansing" of Serbs in Kosovo was to reinstate Serbian domination there.59

Serbian ressentiment.
The very expression of Serbian nationalism and the new vision of the Serbian state invoked by Serbian nationalist intellectuals aggravated ethnic tensions.71 The task of redefining the Serbian nation was undertaken by both the conservative faction of the Serbian intelligentsia and the Serbian Orthodox Church in collaboration with the political leadership, which had control over the mass media. The reawakening of Serbian national consciousness followed classic methods of "nation-building," including descriptions of "national treasures" and cultural uniqueness.72 They encouraged the Serbian national community to imagine itself as an "endangered species" that urgently needed its own state in order to protect itself from other "species." The basic emotion upon which Serbian national identity was built was the enmity of other Yugoslav peoples.73 This is best illustrated in the words of the writer and "father of the Serbian nation," Dobrica Cosic: "The enemies of the Serbs made Serbs Serbs."74 Another well-known Serbian writer expressed the same thought: "The Serbian issue was started and opened by others. They straightened us out by blows, made us sober by offenses, woke us up by injustices, brought light and united us by coalitions. They hate us because of Yugoslavia, and now it seems they do not leave her, but us."75


The second, external, component contained a revision of Serbian relations with other nations and with Yugoslavia as a whole. This new set of relations appeared for the first time in 1986 with the unofficial publication of the Serbian Academy of Sciences and Arts' draft "Memorandum," which was an attempt to present systematically the situation of the Serbs as a whole nation. Based on that document and many positions taken by well-known Serbian writers and members of the Serbian Academy of Sciences and Arts appearing daily in the Serbian media, seven key themes of Serbian ressentiment are identified here.76

Orthodox priests demanded that they be allowed to take Serbian victims murdered in World War II out of mass graves and to rebury them with dignity.86 Exhuming mass graves and the reburial of remains has a symbolic role of defining the borders of the Serbian state: Where there are Serbian graves, there are also Serbian borders. The number of past genocide victims increased every day during this particular Serbian nationalist campaign, which led to disputes with Croatia over the exact number of Serbs murdered. The number of victims was, in fact, overstated in order to force the Croats to publicly deny the inflated numbers. In such a fashion, the Serbs could conclude that Croats wanted to hide their genocidal crimes against Serbs in order to deflect attention from preparations for another future campaign: "It seems to me that that which disrupts relations between Serbs and Croats now is connected to the genocide which was perpetrated against the Serbian people by [the Croatian Ustashe regime]. . . . We can conclude that this hiding of genocide represents an appeal to history for a repeat. . . ."87 Thus, "Serbs are the people who are constantly exposed to genocide."88


Serbia's mobilization of Croatian Serbs started with an unsuccessful attempt to organize a meeting of solidarity in Knin with Serbs and Montenegrins from Kosovo. Belgrade inundated the Knin gathering with constant messages, and the Serbian Orthodox Church assisted by publishing a text that claimed the situation of Serbs in Croatia was worse than that of Serbs in Kosovo and that such terror would force Serbs to migrate toward the east.96
___________________________________________________________


More cases, different denominations:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/balkanhr/message/5852


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/balkanhr/message/5264
__________quote________________________________________
PROTEST AGAINST ORTHODOX CHURCH DIGNITARY'S SPEECH AT DJINDJIFUNERAL

20 March 2003

A dark voice from the past was heard at the funeral service of Prime Minister Zoran Djindji- that of the Serbian Orthodox Church. By delegating Metropolitan Amfilohije to officiate and make a speech, the
Serbian Orthodox Church made it clear that it remains firmly entrenched in the positions of the old regime. When he spoke of the Prime Minister as the man who reconciled Serbia with Europe and the rest of the world at the
expense of the dignity of the Serb nation, Metropolitan Amfilohije in effect called on Serbia to renounce the civilized world.
His metaphor of the sword of Pilate's justice hanging over the head of the Serb nation was a criticism of Djindjiand the Serbian government for accepting the international justice system. By speaking only of Serb victims, the
Metropolitan showed a lack of respect for the human dignity of non-Serb victims. And by justifying the assassination of Prime Minister Djindjiby the "hand of fraternal hate," he urged opposition to the rule of law.

In addition to taking advantage of the service to advocate the dark past as the best option for Serbia's future, Metropolitan Amfilohije showed contempt for the dignified way in which Serbia paid its final respects to Prime Minister Djindji.

The Humanitarian Law Center calls on the Serbian Orthodox Church publicly to apologize to the family of the late Prime Minister, the people, and the government of Serbia.
___________________________________________________________




This was part of Orthodox Greece, Kostas:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,868843,00.html
________________________quote______________________________
With Greece's admiring public, pro-Serbian church, tolerant media and governments that supported Milosevic, Athens was seen as a bolt-hole by the now disgraced president. As Bosnian Serb ethnic cleansers torched villages, it was here Milosevic would escape to enjoy the hospitality of Greek politicians. Marko Milosevic, his lascivious smuggler son, declared Greece 'my first home'.

A Dutch documentary investigating Greek complicity in the Serb wars was aired on local television in which a director of the semi-official Athens News Agency, Nikolas Voulelis, admitted to widespread censorship. During the wars the Greek media was fanatically pro-Serb, portraying Yugoslav Muslims as 'infidel Turks' bent on destroying their Orthodox brethren. 'Editorial interference was a given,' he said.

But it was not only hospitality or money that the Greeks offered. Spiritual succour was provided by the Greek Orthodox church which sent priests to the front line (several clerics received bravery medals from Plavsic).

In a step repeated in no other country, Archbishop Serafeim invited the Bosnian Serb leader Radovan Karadzic to visit Athens in 1993. At a mass rally attended by prominent politicians, the indicted war criminal proclaimed: 'We have only God and the Greeks on our side.'

Last year, in a 7,000-page report that the Dutch authorities commissioned into the 1995 Srebrenica massacre, Greece was revealed to have sent shipments of light arms and ammunition to the Bosnian Serb army between 1994 and 1995. The report describes how Greek volunteers were implored, in intercepted army telephone conversations, to raise the Greek flag after the town fell. In one, General Ratko Mladic asked that they record the scene on video for propaganda purposes.

Around 100 soldiers are believed to have joined the Greek Volunteer Guard, formed at Mladic's request. The unit, which fought alongside Russians and Ukrainians, was led by Serb officers and had its own insignia - the double-headed eagle of Byzantium. At least four of its members were awarded the White Eagle medal of honour by Karadzic.
___________________________________________________________
20 posted on 01/27/2005 11:08:02 PM PST by shpirag
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