Posted on 02/15/2005 4:02:38 PM PST by NYer
Not at all.
John XXIII threw the ball back in her face in the fourth quarter with 0:00 on the clock and the buzzer blaring.
Game's over, sink.
We lose.
Learn to accept it.
Only if you're a conspiracist.
We lose.
Actually, we win because Christ died for us.
Arguments over nits in apparitions don't change that central fact of Salvation.
Have you told the Pope?
"Enlighten especially the peoples of which You Yourself are awaiting our consecration and confiding." Pope John Paul II, L'Osservatore Romano, March 26, 1984
The Pope knows. Also, Sr. Lucy herself said so, in 2001.
His Blood was shed for many, not all.
Apparently he doesn't, because the Pope, in his own words above, stated he had not performed the intended consecration.
I'm sorry that doesn't fit with your agenda.
Sister Lucy stated in September 1985 in "Sol de Fatima" magazine that the consecration of Russia still had not been done because, yet again, Russia was not the object of the consecration and the world's bishops did not participate.
On July 20, 1987, Sr. Lucy confirms to journalist Enrico Romero that the consecration of Russia had not been done.
In July 1989, Fr. Messias Coelho revealed at the Hotel Solar da Marta in Fatima in the presence of three witnesses that Sr. Lucy had just received an anonymous instruction from unidentified persons in the Vatican stating she must now say the Consecration of Russia has been performed.
From this time forward, all alleged communication from Sister Lucy is released via Cardinal Bertone.
Sink, the facts just aren't on your side.
Now the religion forum's resident Mr. Angry and fulltime poster of SSPX spam is all of a sudden a thread policeman? Wake up to the fact that when you inundate a forum with garbage, the smell will sometimes permeate into every corner of it.
I'm not complaining about anyone disrupting the thread. On the contrary. I'm delighted to be able to highlight the extent to which conspiracy theory plays a part in the thinking of some posters.
As I mentioned to another poster, almost all of those contesting the Fatima secret are either SSPX members or sympathizers. It fits a pattern of contestation of everything that comes from Rome, by the above mentioned.
Chill out,sister. You're the "angry" one.
JPII was shot but not killed. The Blessed Mother didn't make a mistake.
This serves to illustrate both the intervention of the Blessed Mother and the conditional nature of prophecies. What Lucia saw was the scenario-without heavenly intervention.
Sister Lucia repeatedly insisted that the Fatima message was dependent on our response and that predicted disasters or chastisements could be averted or lessened by prayers and penance.
You have a strange understanding about apparitions. Apparitions are never simply a written-in-stone fait accompli, like a preview of tomorrow's movie. They are a reflection of the fact that the future can and will change if we accede to God's requests.
That's the whole point of the apparition. If things can't change, there is no point in the Blessed Mother coming to us. She doesn't appear on Earth simply to tell us what will happen in 50 or 100 years.
Sister Lucia's understanding was that the person in the vision was the Pope- and I'm happy to accept her word at face value.
More sunshine and sweetness, I see.
Address the obvious discrepancies in New Rome's story or drop your accusations of "imagined conspiracies".
Of course, it's the new springtime!
btt
No, She gave us an either/or promise.
New Rome went for "or" and we are suffering the consequences. Or perhaps you can point out to me this "period of peace" that was promised. Is it in Iraq? Somalia?
Where exactly is it? Or was the Blessed Mother mistaken on that prophecy also?
So many quesitions, but so few answers.
OK, thanks. Now we know.
Who's "we"?? You and the frog in your pocket? Are you fantasizing that you are the big, bad leader fighting the cause for your millions of fans? LOL!
It is, in fact, a rambling mish-mash of half-truths, half-baked conspiracy theories and utter nonsense interspersed with the occasional moment of lucidity.
No it isn't. You wish it was, but it isn't. It's very well-ordered. It doesn't ramble in the slightest. If you tried to prove your opinion line by line, you'd fail. But don't worry, nobody's holding their breath. Neos never can back up what they say with facts. After they've stamped their feet and puffed away they are basically out of tricks. Williamson's letter follows the thinking of Christ and the Church as regarding its enemies. (or don't you think the Church has enemies?)
The spiel which you posted has absolutely nothing to do with what Williamson is talking about. Not a thing
It's in answer to your tangential litmus test. You toss around messy, non-sensical, half-formulated assumptions that you think TV's brainwashed masses will not question because the drumbeat of the modernist party line makes anything resembling clear thought alien to the A.D.D. generation.
He's talking about a government cover-up of the identity of those behind the attack-and those responsible for 9/11.
No. He's talking about something far worse than that. He's talking about a demonic, philosophical line of thinking and action in the World, (ultimately, Liberalism in all it's ugly forms) that is in contention with Christ. They openly talk about it on TV with regard to the "new order" formerly the "new world order" And I've heard him speak about it in no uncertain terms. Ordinary people through ignorance and very wicked people in places of power. I'm sure you know the types. There are some things I'm sure you are opposed to. Possibly gay marriage and the right to abort. You might believe there is a liberal media bias. Bernard Goldberg wrote "Arrogance" and "Bias" showing one splinter of this trend which Malachi Martin called a "Demonic" energy running the world.
Who are the true perps? The Jews and the Masons of course. Just as they were were for WWI and WWII. Again, we've performed a service for the readers of this thread. Thanks.
Here we go. Time for grandstanding.
The take home message here folks, to get back to the original point of this thread (in case thor76 is still fretting), is that those who see conspiracy in religious life and in the work of the Pope and the Vatican, see conspiracy everywhere.
Right. Here's one of those crackpots. Leo XIII in the long form of the prayer to St. Michael.--"Fight this day the battle of the Lord, together with the holy angels, as already thou hast fought the leader of the proud angels, Lucifer, and his apostate host, who were powerless to resist thee, nor was there place for them any longer in Heaven. That cruel, ancient serpent, who is called the devil or Satan who seduces the whole world, was cast into the abyss with his angels. Behold, this primeval enemy and slayer of men has taken courage. Transformed into an angel of light, he wanders about with all the multitude of wicked spirits, invading the earth in order to blot out the name of God and of His Christ, to seize upon, slay and cast into eternal perdition souls destined for the crown of eternal glory. This wicked dragon pours out, as a most impure flood, the venom of his malice on men of depraved mind and corrupt heart, the spirit of lying, of impiety, of blasphemy, and the pestilent breath of impurity, and of every vice and iniquity.
“These most crafty enemies have filled and inebriated with gall and bitterness the Church, the spouse of the immaculate Lamb, and have laid impious hands on her most sacred possessions. In the Holy Place itself, where the See of Holy Peter and the Chair of Truth has been set up as the light of the world, they have raised the throne of their abominable impiety, with the iniquitous design that when the Pastor has been struck, the sheep may be. "
Pope St. Pius X, " And now, overwhelmed with the deepest sadness, We ask Ourselves, Venerable Brethren, what has become of the Catholicism of the Sillon? Alas! this organization which formerly afforded such promising expectations, this limpid and impetuous stream, HAS BEEN HARNESSED IN ITS COURSE BY THE MODERN ENEMIES OF THE CHURCH, AND IS NOW NO MORE THAN A MISERABLE AFFLUENT OF THE GREAT MOVEMENT OF APOSTASY BEING ORGANIZED IN EVERY COUNTRY FOR THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A ONE-WORLD CHURCH which shall have neither dogmas, nor hierarchy, neither discipline for the mind, nor curb for the passions, and which, under the pretext of freedom and human dignity, would bring back to the world (if such a Church could overcome) the reign of legalized cunning and force, and the oppression of the weak, and of all those who toil and suffer.
We know only too well the dark workshops in which are elaborated these mischievous doctrines which ought not to seduce clear-thinking minds. The leaders of the Sillon have not been able to guard against these doctrines. The exaltation of their sentiments, the undiscriminating good-will of their hearts, their philosophical mysticism, mixed with a measure of illuminism, have carried them away towards another Gospel which they thought was the true Gospel of Our Savior. To such an extent that they speak of Our Lord Jesus Christ with a familiarity supremely disrespectful, and that - their ideal being akin to that of the Revolution - they fear not to draw between the Gospel and the Revolution blasphemous comparisons for which the excuse cannot be made that they are due to some confused and over-hasty composition.
And from Pascendi: "There has never been a time when this watchfulness of the supreme pastor was not necessary to the Catholic body, for owing to the efforts of the enemy of the human race, there have never been lacking "men speaking perverse things,"[1] "vain talkers and seducers,"[2] "erring and driving into error."[3] IT MUST, HOWEVER, BE CONFESSED THAT THESE LATTER DAYS HAVE WITNESSED A NOTABLE INCREASE IN THE NUMBER OF THE ENEMIES OF THE CROSS OF CHRIST, WHO, BY ARTS ENTIRELY NEW AND FULL OF DECEIT, ARE STRIVING TO DESTROY THE VITAL ENERGY OF THE CHURCH, AND, AS FAR AS IN THEM LIES, UTTERLY TO SUBVERT THE VERY KINGDOM OF CHRIST. WHEREFORE WE MAY NO LONGER KEEP SILENCE, LEST WE SHOULD SEEM TO FAIL IN OUR MOST SACRED DUTY, and lest the kindness that, in the hope of wiser counsels, We have hitherto shown them, should be set down to lack of diligence in the discharge of Our office.
2. That We should act without delay in this matter is made imperative especially BY THE FACT THAT THE PARTISANS OF ERROR ARE TO BE SOUGHT NOT ONLY AMONG THE CHURCH'S OPEN ENEMIES; BUT, WHAT IS TO BE MOST DREADED AND DEPLORED, IN HER VERY BOSOM, AND ARE THE MORE MISCHIEVOUS THE LESS THEY KEEP IN THE OPEN. WE ALLUDE, VENERABLE BRETHREN, TO MANY WHO BELONG TO THE CATHOLIC LAITY, AND, WHAT IS MUCH MORE SAD, TO THE RANKS OF THE PRIESTHOOD ITSELF, who, animated by a false zeal for the Church, lacking the solid safeguards of philosophy and theology, nay more, thoroughly imbued with the poisonous doctrines taught by the enemies of the Church, and lost to all sense of modesty, put themselves forward as reformers of the Church; and, forming more boldly into line of attack, assail all that is most sacred in the work of Christ, not sparing even the Person of the Divine Redeemer, whom, with sacrilegious audacity, they degrade to the condition of a simple and ordinary mall.
Conspiracist Pope Paul VI: "The tail of the devil is functioning in the disintegration of the Catholic world. The darkness of Satan has entered and spread throughout the Catholic Church even to its summit. Apostasy, the loss of the faith, is spreading throughout the world and into the HIGHEST LEVELS WITHIN THE CHURCH. --Pope Paul VI, October 13, 1977, Address on the Sixtieth Anniversary of the Fatima Apparitions
Here's another conspiracy freak, " If the world hate you, know ye, that it hath hated me before you. 19 If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. 20 Remember my word that I said to you: The servant is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you: if they have kept my word, they will keep yours also. "
Conspiracy lovers can't isolate their need to believe in intrigue, plots and a nefarious unseen world of shadows and bogey men. It infects every area of their psyche and leads to an utterly disordered view of life and religion.
Oh, if only reality were on your side. Your attempts to mischaracterize the world situation because TV told you how you're supposed to think simply don't correspond to right thinking as taught by the Catholic Church. "Can't you see the signs of the times?"
"And that's an order!!"
Most of your "obvious discrepancies" are based on presumptions, presuppositions, hearsay and probably a few misunderstandings also.
Combined with a pre-existing anti-Rome animus, of course, they indicate something far more sinister.
And all of what little, if any, argument you have is based on straw, hand-fed to you by your handlers.
Perhaps a first question should be, what is the "period of peace"? There have been numerous things written about this. Some have claimed it to be a period when the Church will flourish amidst a second Pentecost. Others have claimed that the dismantling of an atheistic empire that threatened the world with nuclear annihilation, is the "period of peace". I don't know.
Sister Lucia always said that the message concerned principally atheistic communism and the consecration concerned Russia-not Iraq nor Somalia.
Will it occur immediately, is another question?.
I'm neither sure of what is meant by the term "period of peace" nor am I sure if it has been defined in terms of time.
However, please carry on.
Rambling defences of conspiracies is great, as far as I'm concerned. You're proving my point in spades and at the same time alerting good citizens that they need to add you to their bozo filter.
A quick reading of this thread will show any objective reader that you were the one who derailed it - and threw it off topic.
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