Skip to comments."No More Secrets," Visionary Said in 2001 (Sr. Lucia Confirmed Russia Consecrated to Mary)
Posted on 02/15/2005 4:02:38 PM PST by NYer
VATICAN CITY, FEB. 14, 2005 (Zenit.org).- The Fatima secret has been totally revealed by the Vatican, and Russia has already been consecrated as Mary requested, confirmed Sister Maria Lucia of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart.
The witness of the apparitions of the Blessed Virgin of Fatima made this statement to the then secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Archbishop Tarcisio Bertone, on Nov. 17, 2001, contradicting those who say that the Church still has secrets about the Marian apparition.
The content of the interview held between the Vatican representative and Sister Lucia in the convent of Coimbra, Portugal, where she resided, was made public by the Vatican press office on Dec. 20, 2001.
The text of the document states: "In recent months, especially following the sad events of the September 11 terrorist attacks, articles appeared in newspapers alleging new revelations by Sister Lucia, announcements of letters of warning to the Pope, and apocalyptic reinterpretations of the Fatima message."
"Moreover, emphasis was placed on the suspicion that the Holy See had not published the entire text of the third part of the secret, and some 'Fatimist' movements have repeated the accusation that the Holy Father has yet to consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary," the document continues.
As a result, the Vatican note clarifies, it was considered necessary that Archbishop Bertone go personally "to clarify and obtain direct information from the visionary."
The meeting was held in the presence of Father Luis Kondor, vice postulator of the cause of Blessed Francisco and Jacinta (the other Fatima visionaries), and of the prioress of St. Teresa's Carmelite Convent.
The conversation took place on the afternoon of that Nov. 17 and lasted more than two hours. Sister Lucia, then 94, "was in great form -- lucid and vivacious," the Vatican envoy said.
The meeting addressed the question of the third part of the secret of Fatima. The Portuguese religious said that she had read "carefully and meditated on the fascicle published by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and confirms everything that is written," the Vatican statement noted.
When the archbishop explained that there are doubts that part of the secret remains unknown, Sister Lucia replied: "Everything has been published; there are no more secrets."
"If I had received new revelations, I would not have communicated them to anyone, but I would have told them directly to the Holy Father," the religious added.
There was then talk about the statements of Nicholas Gruner, a Canadian priest suspended "a divinis," who is collecting signatures insisting that the Pope finally consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, and alleging that this has never been done.
Sister Lucia told the archbishop: "The Carmel community has rejected the forms for the collection of signatures. I have already said that the consecration requested by Our Lady was done in 1984, and it has been accepted in heaven."
Lastly, the conversation turned to Sister Lucia's personal life. Some press articles suggested that her concern robbed her of sleep and that she was praying night and day.
The religious answered: "It's not true. How would I be able to pray during the day if I did not sleep at night? How many things they attribute to me! How many things they make me do! They should read my book; the advice and appeals that correspond to Our Lady's wishes are there. Prayer and penance, with great faith in God's power, will save the world."
For those still on the fence.
Thank you! We needed to hear this.
A nice piece of fabrication.
Have you noticed the flood of propaganda being issued since Sr. Lucia's death?
It's not like she can dispute a word they say.
You would accuse the very person who was so blessed to be visited by the Blessed Mother, as fabricating this story?
Video tape or a live feed would still come under suspicion.
This press release, and the words of Bertone, are "propaganda."
Of course, you, too, can learn to post like a conspiracy lunatic.
Monday, February 14: Sister Lucia dos Santos peacefully passed away Sunday at Convent in Coimbra. One wonders what does God have in store next?
Millions around the world are mourning the passing of Sister Lucia dos Santos, the Fatima visionary who experienced the Fatima Apparitions and to whom the Third Secret was entrusted by the Mother of God. While praying for her soul, they should mourn her passing as a sign from God that she has seen the fulfillment of the Third Secret. That fulfillment is not the tripe spun to the world in 2000 about persecution of the Church and the attack on the pope, that already happened before any of the conciliar popes took title. No, Sr. Lucia in her heart knew that the fulfillment was the Apostasy in the Church which is so prevalent today. Time and history will prove this. For now we can only pray she will be afforded a proper Requiem Mass in the Latin tradition she was weaned on in Portugal, and not the let's all celebrate white messes that are characteristic of the Novus Ordo. For the sake of souls everywhere we pray for the former. Requiem aeternam dona eis, Domine: et lux perpetua luceat eis.
**Prayer and penance, with great faith in God's power, will save the world."**
I have not seen propaganda -- just a re-publishing of the information.
Each piece of so called information contradicts the previous. But we are supposed to ignore the obvious, right?
You have my agrement. And Sr. Lucia has my prayers!
Well remember...folks who can truly believe that the "real" pope was kidnapped/murdered and replaced with a clever phony - will have no trouble believing this was a phony Lucia, and God only knows what happened to the "real" Lucia.
Actually, Sister Lucy and Cardinal Bertone contradict Gruner.
And, of course, that causes major diaper rash in some circles.
When you have something else to offer other than ridicule let me know. Otherwise you aren't worth my time.
That's not ridicule. It's a fact.
Sister Lucy hasn't spoken publicly since 1985. THAT is a FACT.
And she is Portuguese, not Spanish. I don't know why you think her N.O. funeral would be in Spanish.
Indeed. Personally, I prefer to believe the Fatima Crusader viewpoints regarding the consecration of Russia issue and the 3rd Secret "publication."
I find it most interesting that certain persons here have studiously avoided the other threads on the passing of Sr. Lucia - while posting elswhere on FR. These persons did not even have the Christian charity to post their sorrow at her passing - or say that they would pray for her, as is the duty of a good Catholic.
Yet, now they have surfaced, seemingly to ridicule yourself, and any other poster who a) is a traditionalist, and/or b) holds an opinion about the messages of Fatima which is contrary to the "company line".
Funny - these very same persons will repeatedly maintain that the messages of Fatima (or any apparitions) are not part of revelation, nor the Deposit of Faith. They will also state that the contents of those apparitions which are approved as being "worthy of belief", are not binding upon the faithful.
I have never known of a Marian apparition whose message and purpose became a virtual "policy statement" from the Vatican. According to our previously absent posters, such interpretations were to be considered "private musings".
Now it would seem that if you dare to muse, you must do it in the approved manner, and always reach the same, approved PC conclusion.
But, I will state my own "musing": the messages of Fatima (and specifically the Third Secret)are one and the same with the messages of Akita. On this we have the word of the Blessed Virgin herself..........as well as teh head of the CDF, Cardinal Ratzinger. That is a big clue.
Oh, I've noticed . Zenit was very slolw to report Sister Lucia's death but has wasted no time dredging up this half-bake story from 2001 that the third secret has been fully revealed.
In military maneuvers, if one wishes to make an all out assault, one bides one's time, and gets in position - from multiple vantage points. And then fire all the guns at once. This is an old game.......but it works, as the other side has a difficult time fighting back when being bombarded from all sides.
The best "seiges" are the ones which are sustained, well planned, and not started in haste.
One has to wonder why Zenit and the Vatican have spent as much or more time nervously telling us the entire third secret has been revealed and that Russia was really consecrated (yet everyone just happened to miss it) than they have mourning Sister Lucia.
I read the what we've been told is the third secret. What I don't understand is why on God's earth would what they are telling us is the "third secret" be kept under wraps for so long?
IOW, in order for Rome to keep the third from being revealed for so long it must have been something so controversal or shocking that it just couldn't be released (in their view). There was nothing I read in their version of the "third secret" that would cause such a reaction. There is nothing scandalous, controversial or horrifying in it. It's for the most part innocuous.
After all according to our Church, our Lady was present at Fatima. She told the Lucia that it was to be released in 1960, Rome refused.
Would someone please point out to me what it is in the "third secret" presented to us that would cause it to be kept hidden for decades?
It just doesn't make any sense at all.
Your post poses a most intelligent question: why keep the secret hidden, when the released text in 2000 was very tame & innocous.
At the time it was released I recall speaking to those of my mother's and even gradnmother's generation, who would surely have remembered the build up of anticipation prior to 1960. Their reaction was sort of:..."so that's it? Hardly seemed worth hiding it for 40 years". This was the reaction of persons who were both Catholic & non- Catholic.
One clue as to the true nature, and total content of the real third secret is that Fatima was essentially an "either/or proposition". Due to the action ( or should I say inaction) of Pope John XXII, we are living with the consequences of "or". For 45 years.
Propoganda? Her prophecy doesn't match yours, so that makes it propoganda? Puhlease! This is the Season of Lent. Have some respect, if nothing else.
Did you catch Fr. Gruner on Coast To Coast AM Live, last night, as he bashed the Catholic Church, the pope and Cardinal Ratzinger? No mention by George Noory that Fr. Gruner may no longer celebrate mass.
If we take the Vatican line in this,and the "consecration" was done, doesn't it seem that JPII was suckered into believing Fatima?
Since the fruits from the "consecration" are not there, Fatima must have been a sham. It could never have been Our Lady. Otherwise, she is a liar.
So JPII was wrong about the beatifications.
JPII was also wrong about the Blessed Mother saving him on May 13th in 1981.
Lucia was suckered for virtually her whole life. As were the Popes from 1917 onwards.
It seems JPII and Lucia were both "crazy" Fatimists.
That's IF you buy the Vatican line.
Reason and common sense are not factors in this equation.
It's "the dream", see? When reality intrudes, we hold onto "the dream" and deny reality.
That's how strong this is.
Like, "We are in the Springtime of VaticanII?"
Nice attempt to twist my words. You know very well to what I was referring.
You want respect? Rome owes respect to the wishes of the Blessed Mother and her primary witness. You are on the wrong side of this battle.
"The excommunications are invalid" would be another.
"The Novus Ordo Church will collapse any day and SSPX will rule supreme" would be yet another.
See, I can play your silly game too.
I caught the beginning of it. Gruner's faculties are slipping in more ways than one ...
Cardinal Oddi - Elvis sighter
"It [the Third Secret] has nothing to do with Gorbachev. The Blessed Virgin was alerting us against apostasy in the Church." Il Sabato 03-17-1990
Cardinal Ciappi - dreamer, denier of reality and personal theologian to JPII
"In the Third Secret it is foretold, among other things, that the great apostasy in the Church will begin at the top." letter to Professor Baumgartner in Salzburg
I didn't fabricate, "We are in the Springtime of Vatican II" JPII has said it.
You had to fabricate, "The Novus Ordo Church will collapse any day and SSPX will rule supreme"
The excommunications being invalid has more basis in reality than JPII's dreamy statement.
And if you want, I can find numerous statements of JPII that are beyond ridiculous.
I've asked intelligent questions (and dumb ones) here, but this isn't an overly intelligent one. In fact, any jackass with just a bit of common sense would would be forced to ask the same. Maybe if I rephrase it simply, someone can give a simple answer.
What is it that is contained in the supposed official version of the third secret that would cause 3 popes over decades to take such great pains to keep the text hidden?
I just don't get it.
I don't believe in Elvis, or flying saucers. Although I know that Mary is the living Mother of God, I don't believe in most Marian "apparitions" for that matter. I believe in Fatima because it's been documented by tens of thousands of people and it's sanctioned by our Church. It's not a matter of conspiracy theories, I don't even know who Father Gruner is.
It's just basic logic to wonder why we should believe what they are telling us when it doesn't seem to make any sense.
It's the same dynamic with the consecration. We're expected to believe something that can't be resolved by simply using the brains that God gave us.
Nobody remembers any real consecration (which would have been a enormous event in our Church), but never mind that - it happened anyway. We all just somehow missed it.
Logic is lacking. Unless you consider a logical argument to be that if you don't shut up and listen to your churchmen - who of course are above all reproach - you're a bad Catholic in a tinfoil suit.
I could post an entire page of quotes from people who claimed to know what was in the secret. Cardinal Oddi said lots about the Third Secret-most of it speculative. Did he read it? I've read claims that not even Pius XII read it.
On another occasion, Oddi had this to say about the third secret:
At this point let me advance a hypothesis: that the Third Secret of Fatima pre-announces something terrible the Church has done, naturally without meaning to. That because of mistaken interpretations, disobedience, or something similar, the Church has passed through a moment that was too difficult. Nevertheless the secret says that by the year 1960, in spite of the best intentions, the church would have done something whose consequences were very painful, with a tremendous decline in religious practice. And that later, following a great suffering, the Faith would return. Yes, this may be the content of the secret. But if this were true, the fulfillment of the secret has already been observed, for the crisis in the Church is visible to all. And the most alert souls recognized it years ago". Reference
It sounds like pure speculation on his part, to me.
As a rule of thumb regarding the Third Secret, those who knew, didn't talk and those who talked didn't know.
"if you don't shut up and listen to your churchmen - who of course are above all reproach - you're a bad Catholic in a tinfoil suit."
I would think you knew that! (gross sarcasm - forgive me!)
I would say that the revelation of a Pope being shot and killed would be sufficient for precisely that course of action.
Can you imagine what sort of disturbance and disquiet this would create among the faithful? Not to mention the circus it would cause in the secular world? For an officially approved apparition to predict that a future Pope would die violently would lead to all sorts of commotion in the Church and distract from its mission. "Is it today?", "Is this Pope the one?" would have been questions which spawned entire industries not unlike the JFK saga.
The Church is not "into" predicting the future. At least not in the sense that a revelation such as this foretells. It tells us that Jesus will return, that each of us will face our own particular judgement but the future violent death of a Pope is not something which we need to know for our own salvation.
There are probably other reasons which one could think of, but I think it's a stretch to infer from the long secrecy that there must be something really juicy being hidden and to further infer from this that the published version must therefore, be false.
Does Cardinal Ratzinger know?
"Cardinal Ratzinger, have you read what is called the Third Secret of Fatima: i.e., the one that Sister Lucia had sent to Pope John XXIII and which the latter did not wish to make known and consigned to the Vatican archives?"
(In reply, Cardinal Ratzinger said)
"Yes, I have read it,"
(which frank response provoked a further question)
"Why has it not been revealed?"
(To this the Cardinal gave the following most instructive reply)
"Because, according to the judgement of the Popes, it adds nothing (literally 'nothing different') to what a Christian must know concerning what derives from Revelation: i.e., a radical call for conversion; the absolute importance of history; the dangers threatening the faith and the life of the Christian, and therefore of the world. And then the importance of the 'novissimi' (the last events at the end of time). If it is not made public - at least for the time being - it is in order to prevent religious prophecy from being mistaken for a quest for the sensational (literally: 'for sensationalism'). But the things contained in this 'Third Secret' correspond to what has been announced in Scripture and has been said again and again in many other Marian apparations, first of all that of Fatima in what is already known of what its message contains. Conversion and penitence are the essential conditions for 'salvation'."
--November 11, 1984 issue of Jesus magazine
The form of words is mine. And I'll plead guilty to a charge of exaggeration with the "any day" remark.
However, the idea the the non-SSPX Church is in an advanced stage of a disease which will eventually prove terminal is pushed relentlessly on this forum. By you amongst others.
They confirm nicely what I said to another poster in #43.
Although it won't be forthcoming, I would love to hear an solid explanation from our Church on this, as opposed to some weak article from the Zenit apologists.
On one hand they tell us (officially) that the Mother of our Lord and Savior appeared at Fatima to 3 children, on the other they tell us that they were forced to directly disobey her because of an ambiguous vision of a man in white being assaulted with bullets and arrows.
She really never could, could she?
The form of words is mine. And I'll plead guilty to a charge of exaggeration with the "any day" remark. However, the idea the the non-SSPX Church is in an advanced stage of a disease which will eventually prove terminal is pushed relentlessly on this forum. By you amongst others.
The "conciliar" Church is in an advanced stage of auto-demolition. That's Paul VI, not 'trads". Ratzinger himself just recently apologized for his part in the "ruins" we are standing in regarding Liturgy. Trads just see the same obvious reality in front of them. Your construction of "non-SSPX" and this imposed triumphalism that you are attributing to the SSPX is a pure fabrication on your part. It's reminiscent of pro-abortionists calling pro lifers. "anti-choice".
All you have to do is actually hear Bishop Williamson online or on tape giving sermons and interviews about the status of the Church and the role and function of the SSPX in the context of today. "By no means am I saying that all are Angels inside the society and all are devils outside the society." You will never hear anything from the SSPX regarding their "ruling supreme". In fact, if you actually knew what you were talking about you'd hear a lot of things that you'd find surprising about the reverence for the heirarchy and the SSPX knowing the limits of what they can accomplish during this time. I used to think and believe like you do. Then, I actually did my homework.