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To: patrick317
and perhaps attributed to a personal projection you are making.

With all "due" respect, this is typical homosexual agenda rhetoric, and the good Catholic folks on this forum know better than to fall for it or tolerate it.

Some of your opinions could be copied and pasted from a homosexual apologists' website.

The Vatican is clear on this and you are openly dissenting from their stated position: It is NOT unjust discrimination to bar those with homosexual attractions from the priesthood.

From "Careful Selection And Training Of Candidates For The States Of Perfection And Sacred Orders (S. C. Rel., 2 Feb., 1961)":

Advancement to religious vows and ordination should be barred to those who are afflicted with evil tendencies to homosexuality or pederasty, since for them the common life and the priestly ministry would constitute serious dangers.

5. Very special investigation is needed for those students who, although they have hitherto been free of formal sins against chastity, nevertheless suffer from morbid or abnormal sexuality, especially sexual hyperesthesia or an erotic bent of nature, to whom religious celibacy would be a continual act of heroism and a trying martyrdom. For chastity, in so far as it implies abstinence from sexual pleasure, not only becomes very difficult for many people but the very state of celibacy and the consequent loneliness and separation from one's family becomes so difficult for certain individuals gifted with excessive sensitivity and tenderness, that they are not fit subjects for the religious life.

From "Some Considerations Concerning the Catholic Response to Legislative Proposals on the Non-Discrimination of Homosexual Persons"

CARDINAL RATZINGER

June 1992

II.    Applications

10. "Sexual orientation" does not constitute a quality comparable to race, ethnic background, etc. in respect to non-discrimination. Unlike these, homosexual orientation is an objective disorder (cf "Letter," no. 3).

11. There are areas in which it is not unjust discrimination to take sexual orientation into account, ....

12. Homosexual persons, as human persons, have the same rights as all persons including that of not being treated in a manner which offends their personal dignity (cf no. 10). Among other rights, all persons have the right to work, to housing, etc. Nevertheless, these rights are not absolute. They can be legitimately limited for objectively disordered external conduct. This is sometimes not only licit but obligatory. This would obtain moreover not only in the case of culpable behaviour but even in the case of actions of the physically or mentally ill. Thus it is accepted that the state may restrict the exercise of rights, for example, in the case of contagious or mentally ill persons, in order to protect the common good.

13. Including "homosexual orientation" among the considerations on the basis of which it is illegal to discriminate can easily lead to regarding homosexuality as a positive source of human rights, for example, in respect to so-called affirmative action, the filling of quotas in hiring practices. This is all the more mistaken since there is no right to homosexuality (cf. no. 10) which therefore should not form the judicial basis for claims. The passage from the recognition of homosexuality as a factor on which basis it is illegal to discriminate can easily lead, if not automatically, to the legislative protection of homosexuality. A person's homosexuality would be invoked in opposition to alleged discrimination and thus the exercise of rights would be defended precisely via the affirmation of the homosexual condition instead of in terms of a violation of basic human rights.

14. The "sexual orientation" of a person is not comparable to race, sex, age, etc. also for another reason than that given above which warrants attention. An individual's sexual orientation is generally not known to others unless he publicly identifies himself as having this orientation or unless some overt behaviour manifests it. As a rule, the majority of homosexually-oriented persons who seek to lead chaste lives do not want or see no reason for their sexual orientation to become public knowledge. Hence the problem of discrimination in terms of employment, housing, etc. does not arise. Homosexual persons who assert their homosexuality tend to be precisely those who judge homosexual behaviour or lifestyle to be "either completely harmless, if not an entirely good thing" (ct no. 3), and hence worthy of public approval. It is from this quarter that one is more likely to find those who seek to manipulate the Church by gaining the often well-intentioned support of Her pastors with a view to changing civil statutes and laws" (cf no. 5), those who use the tactic of protesting that "any and all criticism of or reservations about homosexual people ... are simply diverse forms of unjust discrimination" (cf no. 9).

93 posted on 03/10/2005 12:31:50 PM PST by St. Johann Tetzel (Rule One! No Poofters!)
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To: St. Johann Tetzel
"With all "due" respect, this is typical homosexual agenda rhetoric, and the good Catholic folks on this forum know better than to fall for it or tolerate it"

I have no agenda here but to seek the truth, dear friend, you are mistaken.

"Some of your opinions could be copied and pasted from a homosexual apologists' website."

I don't know what this means or what you are implying, but "homosexual apologists", that's a first for me on that phrase. I didn't cut and paste I just reported to the room my experience in life, your rather offensive in your thread, If the Vatican doesn't want homosexual men in the priesthood then I will agree with their position, but the position is very vague right now, to say otherwise is delusional. If this was the policy I imagine gay priests "found out" would have been defrocked, oh that's right they weren't, perhaps there is a greater wisdom in the Vatican on this matter than even your well read brain can comprehend.

As far as your tangent into laws on discrimination of gays in the workplace in the United States, I don't support such laws, I sense a false dichotomy, but (respectfully) you have your position and that's fine, but dissent from the Church, I have not!
All people have their imperfections, yes homosexuality is one such imperfection, I guess the only way to insure a perfect priesthood is to remove all human beings from the position, become protestants and call it a day! P.S., thanks Sinkspur, you won't be forgotten on "the last day"!
96 posted on 03/10/2005 12:56:55 PM PST by patrick317
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