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To: visually_augmented

We are under a New Covenant. Those who lived under the Old Covenant, which was God's covenant with Israel, were justified by the Law. We are not under the Old Law. God's grace is what allows us to be saved, but we still must be obedient to receive that salvation(Hebrews 5:9).

Of course we can't be saved like those who lived under the Old Law. Is that a serious question? If so, then I would question what you have been taught about the relationship between the Old Testament and the New Testament. Christ gave His life as the ultimate sacrifice. This did away with the old way of atonement, which required continual sacrifices.


189 posted on 04/06/2005 5:42:14 AM PDT by jkl1122
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To: jkl1122
We are under a New Covenant. Those who lived under the Old Covenant, which was God's covenant with Israel, were justified by the Law.

[snip]

Is that a serious question? If so, then I would question what you have been taught about the relationship between the Old Testament and the New Testament.

Can you name me one Old Testament saint who perfectly kept the Law? If not, I suggest you apply the same scrutiny to your own understanding that you are applying to visually_augmented.

190 posted on 04/06/2005 5:47:24 AM PDT by Frumanchu (I fear the sanctions of the Mediator far above the sanctions of the moderator...)
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To: jkl1122

JKL: "Of course we can't be saved like those who lived under the Old Law. Is that a serious question? If so, then I would question what you have been taught about the relationship between the Old Testament and the New Testament."

I asked the question only because I anticipated your response. I, in fact, do not believe there is any different means of salvation between the OT people and those saved today. Certainly our obediance today does not stipulate the ceremonial laws the Jews were required, but that is merely a question of sanctification - not salvation (or justification).

The only blood that atones for sin is Christ's blood. The OT people of God were saved by Christ, not the blood of a goat, sheep, or dove. These sacrifices were merely symbols that looked forward to Christ's death on the cross. Baptism is very similar to the blood sacrifices of the OT in that it is an outward sign of an inward cleansing. The sacrifices of the OT saved no one just as baptism can save no one. The only one that saves/forgives is God and God alone through the redemptive death of His Son, Jesus Christ.

We certainly are under a New Covenant. But a change in the covenant does not eradicate the means of salvation. The only reason we needed a New Covenant is because man failed to meet his end of the bargain - not due to some insufficiency in God's promises or actions. This is a key point. Man will ALWAYS fail to keep his part of the covenant - that is why we rely COMPLETELY on the Lord to save us. If salvation is contingent on any obediance from man, it cannot succeed. No man has pure intentions in ANY action (even those who are regenerated) - all are tainted with sin. How can baptism be any different?


200 posted on 04/06/2005 11:47:25 AM PDT by visually_augmented (I was blind, but now I see)
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