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To: thePilgrim; connectthedots
Obviously, you seem to disagree with Steve Camps statement, so it would be nice if you would actually proved some examples of things you seem to think would show his statement to be false.

You seem to have made my point for me. Had Camps actually given biblical references there would be no need to doubt what he said. Since I made no claim on what is and is not biblical the burden of proof is not mine, but instead it is Camps', who did claim that his statement was covered by strict biblical circumstances.

I think it was the term "allowed Biblically under two strict circumstances" and no biblical reference that threw up red flags on my end. Any "strict circumstances" should easily be referenced. Yet, in the many passages throughout the article, none supports this statement. I wonder why?

To his circumstances for civil disobedience, I can easily add another.
3.) When the government endangers innocent lives.
Like when the Magi ignored Herod's command and did not disclose where they found the baby Jesus. And Joseph and Mary when they fled to Egypt with the infant Jesus instead of giving him over to be killed as Herod had commanded.

For a man who makes money lecturing admonitions of others for anything less than perfect Sola Scriptura, Mr. Camps should examine every jot and tittle of his own works or at least pull the plank out of his eye.

28 posted on 05/16/2005 1:30:57 PM PDT by Between the Lines (We are enabled to see the Lord at work if our eyes and our hearts are open." - George W. Bush)
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To: Between the Lines

***When the government endangers innocent lives.***

Already addressed by Steve Camp in the article:

"Paul had ample opportunity to wage a revolt against the Roman populace and government for the utter filth and degradation that filled the streets of Rome. But he didn't. What about the temple prostitutes at Corinth and the occult practices and genocide that Nero practiced? No uprising ever occurred in the Biblical record. Even our Lord had just reason for leading a people out of the horrific moral and political climate He encountered. But instead, Jesus said these amazing words to Pilate before He went to the cross, "...if My kingdom were of this world my disciples would be fighting..." (John 18:36). Do we think that we are more capable, sophisticated, wise, equipped, intelligent, perceptive, holy people than the prophets, the apostles, and even our Lord Himself? Truly we have made "flesh our arm" (Jer. 17:5) and are reaping the benefits of our lowly labor."

***Like when the Magi ignored Herod's command and did not disclose where they found the baby Jesus.***

Actually, the Magi were instructed by God to not heed Herod so your example falls directly under the 2 cited by Steve Camp.

***And Joseph and Mary when they fled to Egypt with the infant Jesus instead of giving him over to be killed as Herod had commanded.***

Yet another example of obeying the Lord over and above the government, which is covered by Steve Camps 2 examples. Joseph was warned to flee with the child.

***You seem to have made my point for me. Had Camps actually given biblical references there would be no need to doubt what he said. Since I made no claim on what is and is not biblical the burden of proof is not mine, but instead it is Camps', who did claim that his statement was covered by strict biblical circumstances.***

No, the burden is not on Camp. He has made a statement and given 2 examples. Those 2 examples are obviously true to any Christian.

Now, Camp could exhaustively cover every example of Civil Disobedience and eliminate it Biblically, but I hardly think you would read the volumes it would take to write to prove it.

It would actually be much easier to prove Camp wrong, which you haven't done, by providing a single example. Just one!!!

***For a man who makes money lecturing admonitions of others for anything less than perfect Sola Scriptura, Mr. Camps should examine every jot and tittle of his own works or at least pull the plank out of his eye.***

Or, you could actually provide an example which whould prove Camp wrong. Here are a couple of verse to get you thinking:

Romans 13:1-2 & Romans 12:18


31 posted on 05/16/2005 1:46:48 PM PDT by thePilgrim
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