[winstonchurchill]

... that old complaint that these dogmas were not provable by scripture will disappear,'' Carnley said ...

This, of course, is ultimately the issue. Most RCC adherents will readily concede that their devotion to/worship of Mary is based upon their organization's 'tradition' and not upon the Scriptures. The RCC, like the Mormon church, is unabashedly accretionist, i.e. their respective organizations have established mechanisms to add to (or change)their belief structure. as time goes along, beyond those concepts found in Scripture.

The risks of an accretionist church, of course, is that, like the old children's game of 'telephone', by the time the story gets filtered through the 'tradition' of each of the carriers on its way around the circle, it bears little or no resemblence to the original message. The advantage of the accretionist approach is that it can readily adapt to cultural and scientific developments, but the disadvantage is that no effective mechanism has been found to keep the accretions 'tied to' and limited by the original message.

The Anglicans have always muddled along somewhere in the middle between the accretionists and the non-accretionists, granting some (undefined) role to 'tradition'. All that is changing here is that (apparently) some segment of the Anglican church is swinging toward complete accretionism.

For those of us with a high view of Scripture (versus man-made accretions), this is sad. For the accretionists, obviously, it is a cause for celebration and an old-fashioned "I told you so."

[mike182d]

their respective organizations have established mechanisms to add to (or change)their belief structure. as time goes along, beyond those concepts found in Scripture.

Could you please cite when the Roman Catholic Church has ever changed its belief structure in 2000 years?

[AnAmericanMother]

Problem with that viewpoint is that the content of Scripture itself was established by tradition. So unless you're willing to jettison tradition just as soon as it has established what's in and what's out of the Bible . . .

And of course there's also the problem that St. Paul refers specifically to the oral and teaching tradition as well as the written word . . .

And I wish people would quit saying that Catholics "worship" Mary. They don't, never have, and anybody who claims to do so is not following the teachings of the Church.

[mike182d]

Scripture (versus man-made accretions),

Are you suggesting that the canonized New Testament, in the form we have today, floated down from heaven and was not made by men?

[NYer]

The RCC, like the Mormon church

Bite your tongue ... the Catholic and Mormon churches have nothing in common. The belief of the Catholic Church comes from the Bible; the Mormon's derive their beliefs from a novel.

[mike182d]

beyond those concepts found in Scripture.

Could you also point out where one could find the following concepts in Scripture: sola-scriptura, sola-fides, "Trinity," "Rapture".....

[Rutles4Ever]

There is nothing accretionist about the Church. Public revelation is closed. The enhanced understanding of those revelations with continue until the end of time, however.

You really sell God short on His ability to create the greatest piece of literature ever. The way you interpret the Bible, Jackie Collins could have written it. There are endless treasures beneath the surface, which are waiting for discovery.

So far as 'man-made' goes, I suppose that applies to the canon of the Bible, too? I mean, talk about man-made! Forty or so Gospels whiddled down to four? Are you sure the men who entered the Synod of Hippo were acting at the behest of the Holy Spirit? Could be they were just acting as "men"? Hmmm.

[Campion]

The RCC, like the Mormon church, is unabashedly accretionist, i.e. their respective organizations have established mechanisms to add to (or change)their belief structure. as time goes along, beyond those concepts found in Scripture.

Protestants do the same thing, all the time. Study up on the history of premillenial dispensationalism sometime.

Incidentally, Catholicism can only expand on what the Apostles taught us and what the Church has always believed. We cannot contradict it.

[JustMytwocents70]

Most RCC adherents will readily concede that their devotion to/worship of Mary is based upon their organization's 'tradition' and not upon the Scriptures. What about the Catholic Rosary? That is biblical.

[JustMytwocents70]

Most RCC adherents will readily concede that their devotion to/worship of Mary is based upon their organization's 'tradition' and not upon the Scriptures. What about the Catholic Rosary? That is biblical.

[Conservative til I die]

This, of course, is ultimately the issue. Most RCC adherents will readily concede that their devotion to/worship of Mary is based upon their organization's 'tradition' and not upon the Scriptures. The RCC, like the Mormon church, is unabashedly accretionist, i.e. their respective organizations have established mechanisms to add to (or change)their belief structure. as time goes along, beyond those concepts found in Scripture.

The risks of an accretionist church, of course, is that, like the old children's game of 'telephone', by the time the story gets filtered through the 'tradition' of each of the carriers on its way around the circle, it bears little or no resemblence to the original message. The advantage of the accretionist approach is that it can readily adapt to cultural and scientific developments, but the disadvantage is that no effective mechanism has been found to keep the accretions 'tied to' and limited by the original message.

The Anglicans have always muddled along somewhere in the middle between the accretionists and the non-accretionists, granting some (undefined) role to 'tradition'. All that is changing here is that (apparently) some segment of the Anglican church is swinging toward complete accretionism.

For those of us with a high view of Scripture (versus man-made accretions), this is sad. For the accretionists, obviously, it is a cause for celebration and an old-fashioned "I told you so."

That's why the Catholic Church is fortunate to have the Holy Spirit guiding her. The Holy Spirit does not guide any other Church.