A Church That Packs Them In, 16,000 at a Time

NY Times ^ | July 18, 2005 | JOHN LELAND

[jkl1122]

I have no problem with smiling. I just don't agree with making light of Spiritual things.

[wallcrawlr]

ah dangit i typoed your name...sorry about that

[wallcrawlr]

ok...sorry about that...didnt mean to disrupt your serious time.

why do i feel a discussion about humor coming up next.

[Elsie]

Romans 15

 

 1.  We who are strong ought to bear with the failings of the weak and not to please ourselves.
 2.  Each of us should please his neighbor for his good, to build him up.
 3.  For even Christ did not please himself but, as it is written: "The insults of those who insult you have fallen on me."
 4.  For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.
 5.  May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus,
 6.  so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
 7.  Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God.

 

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Hey guys!

 

We're missing something.........................

[Elsie]

All are approved.

One would sure think so!

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Matthew 18:20
For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them.

[Elsie]

Humorous?

I'm confused.

[jkl1122]

You said you weren't okay with having the Lord's Supper more than once a year. I hope you were just kidding. That is what I was referring to.

[Elsie]

Don't thank me!

I sure can't remember all this stuff!

[Elsie]

Light?

I didn't bring up pbj's!

[Elsie]

why do i feel a discussion about humor coming up next.

Ya think??

Proverbs 15:13
A merry heart maketh a cheerful countenance: but by sorrow of the heart the spirit is broken.

[jkl1122]

You said that musical intruemnts were not expressly forbidden, so they must be allowed. I was showing the consequence of your argument.

[Elsie]

 I hope you were just kidding.

 

Why?

 

The NT 'church' has REALLY gone non-scriptural on it!!

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Matthew 26
 1.  When Jesus had finished saying all these things, he said to his disciples,
 2.  "As you know, the Passover is two days away--and the Son of Man will be handed over to be crucified."

 

NIV Matthew 26:16-18
 16.  From then on Judas watched for an opportunity to hand him over.
 17.  On the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Where do you want us to make preparations for you to eat the Passover?"
 18.  He replied, "Go into the city to a certain man and tell him, `The Teacher says: My appointed time is near. I am going to celebrate the Passover with my disciples at your house.'"

 

NIV Matthew 26:19-32
19.  So the disciples did as Jesus had directed them and prepared the Passover.
 20.  When evening came, Jesus was reclining at the table with the Twelve.
 21.  And while they were eating, he said, "I tell you the truth, one of you will betray me."
 22.  They were very sad and began to say to him one after the other, "Surely not I, Lord?"
 23.  Jesus replied, "The one who has dipped his hand into the bowl with me will betray me.
 24.  The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born."
 25.  Then Judas, the one who would betray him, said, "Surely not I, Rabbi?"   Jesus answered, "Yes, it is you."
 26.  While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body."
 27.  Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you.
 28.  This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
 29.  I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom."
 30.  When they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.
 31.  Then Jesus told them, "This very night you will all fall away on account of me, for it is written: "`I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.' 
 32.  But after I have risen, I will go ahead of you into Galilee."

 

 

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Remember the details of the PASSOVER?

NIV Exodus 12:3-27
 3.  Tell the whole community of Israel that on the tenth day of this month each man is to take a lamb  for his family, one for each household.
 4.  If any household is too small for a whole lamb, they must share one with their nearest neighbor, having taken into account the number of people there are. You are to determine the amount of lamb needed in accordance with what each person will eat.
 5.  The animals you choose must be year-old males without defect, and you may take them from the sheep or the goats.
 6.  Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the people of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight.
 7.  Then they are to take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the doorframes of the houses where they eat the lambs.
 8.  That same night they are to eat the meat roasted over the fire, along with bitter herbs, and bread made without yeast. 
 9.  Do not eat the meat raw or cooked in water, but roast it over the fire--head, legs and inner parts.
 10.  Do not leave any of it till morning; if some is left till morning, you must burn it.
 11.  This is how you are to eat it: with your cloak tucked into your belt, your sandals on your feet and your staff in your hand. Eat it in haste; it is the LORD's Passover.
 12.  "On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn--both men and animals--and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the LORD.
 13.  The blood will be a sign for you on the houses where you are; and when I see the blood, I will pass over you. No destructive plague will touch you when I strike Egypt.
 14.  "This is a day you are to commemorate; for the generations to come you shall celebrate it as a festival to the LORD--a lasting ordinance.
 15.  For seven days you are to eat bread made without yeast. On the first day remove the yeast from your houses, for whoever eats anything with yeast in it from the first day through the seventh must be cut off from Israel.
 16.  On the first day hold a sacred assembly, and another one on the seventh day. Do no work at all on these days, except to prepare food for everyone to eat--that is all you may do.
 17.  "Celebrate the Feast of Unleavened Bread, because it was on this very day that I brought your divisions out of Egypt. Celebrate this day as a lasting ordinance for the generations to come.
 18.  In the first month you are to eat bread made without yeast, from the evening of the fourteenth day until the evening of the twenty-first day.
 19.  For seven days no yeast is to be found in your houses. And whoever eats anything with yeast in it must be cut off from the community of Israel, whether he is an alien or native-born.
 20.  Eat nothing made with yeast. Wherever you live, you must eat unleavened bread."
 21.  Then Moses summoned all the elders of Israel and said to them, "Go at once and select the animals for your families and slaughter the Passover lamb.
 22.  Take a bunch of hyssop, dip it into the blood in the basin and put some of the blood on the top and on both sides of the doorframe. Not one of you shall go out the door of his house until morning.
 23.  When the LORD goes through the land to strike down the Egyptians, he will see the blood on the top and sides of the doorframe and will pass over that doorway, and he will not permit the destroyer to enter your houses and strike you down.
 24.  "Obey these instructions as a lasting ordinance for you and your descendants.
 25.  When you enter the land that the LORD will give you as he promised, observe this ceremony.
 26.  And when your children ask you, `What does this ceremony mean to you?'
 27.  then tell them, `It is the Passover sacrifice to the LORD, who passed over the houses of the Israelites in Egypt and spared our homes when he struck down the Egyptians.'" Then the people bowed down and worshiped.

 

 

 

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 since the Jews were told to 'celebrate' Passover FOREVER, we, as Christians, have applied the same reasoning to EASTER, since we do NOT celebrate PASSOVER. 

 

However we eat the 'meal' that Jesus ate (ha!) any time we want to in our churches.

 

It's become so commonplace that is has almost lost it's REMEMBERING value.

 

[Elsie]

They MUST???

[jkl1122]

The example in the New Testament of partaking of the Lord's Supper by Christians is done on the first day of the week. And actually, the original Greek points to every first day of the week. I have to go. I will talk to everyone later.

[Elsie]

Gotta go guys...


We are having either a PERMITTED fish fry at church tonight, or else a hellish non-authorized conglomeration of deep fried lusters!

;^)

[Elsie]

The example in the New Testament of partaking of the Lord's Supper by Christians is done on the first day of the week.

And actually, the original Greek points to every first day of the week.

 

I really want to see this from Scripture, but until you can get back to the computer, I'll just have to wait. 

But let me post some stuff while waiting....

 

 

 

 

 

NIV Acts 20:6-7
 6.  But we sailed from Philippi after the Feast of Unleavened Bread,

 

    Matthew 26:17    On the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Where do you want us to make preparations for you to eat the Passover?"   

 

and five days later joined the others at Troas, where we stayed seven days.
 7.  On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight.

 

(This does NOT sound like the Lord's Supper)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

NIV 1 Corinthians 11:18-34
 18.  In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it.
 19.  No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God's approval.
 20.  When you come together, it is not the Lord's Supper you eat,
 21.  for as you eat, each of you goes ahead without waiting for anybody else. One remains hungry, another gets drunk.
 22.  Don't you have homes to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you for this? Certainly not!
 23.  For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread,
 24.  and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me." 
 25.  In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me."
 26.  For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.
 27.  Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.
 28.  A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup.
 29.  For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself.
 30.  That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.
 31.  But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment.
 32.  When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world.
 33.  So then, my brothers, when you come together to eat, wait for each other.
 34.  If anyone is hungry, he should eat at home, so that when you meet together it may not result in judgment.   And when I come I will give further directions.

(Doncha wish we had what these 'further directions' today!?)

 

 

 

NIV 1 Corinthians 16:1-2
 1.  Now about the collection for God's people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do.
 2.  On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. 

 

 

These are all I could find about FIRST.

[wallcrawlr]

good one.

[lifelongsoldier]

How am I confused. I named no names, accused no one, and simply stated: "The abundance comes through our service to our fellow believers, not through demanding things from God. This definitely accords with James's description of a salvation for works". Besides, there are tens of thousands of people in this country who follow the name it, claim it gurus. Are they all stupid, do they have no discernment at all, or have their eyes been blinded to the truth?

Service to the Lord is done under the guidance of the Spirit. It is He who shows us what our proper service is. We need to try to be part of the best assembly of Christians, not the biggest.

Denying the need for works flies in the face of James's message. Do you set yourself above an Apostle? I do not work to be saved, I work because I am saved. I do nothing without thought and prayer. I have never seen an assembly under the lead of qualified elders get involved with any "ministry" which caused anyone to be lost. I have seen many assemblies acting under the leadership of one man do just that. Packing them in 16000 at a time is a bit off the pattern of the New Testament church. Certainly large numbers were added on Pentecost and in the days after, but many of those added did not remain in Jerusalem. They returned home and took the message with them. Most assemblies in those days could and did meet in the homes of the disciples.

And I have, with my wife, prayed that His will be done in our lives where He wills, when He wills, as He wills. Don't work until you are prepared for the task. But then you have found that out.

[asformeandformyhouse]

How about 3???

How about admitting that you can't find even one. Others here already have. The passages you mentioned say nothing concerning instruments. You just have to find a better position to argue.

4. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,

So the Rastafarians are correct then? Obviously this doesn't mean everything. The context (which is always important and should be paid attention to) is concerning marriage and food. The key is in the previous verse where it says "which God created to be received with thanksgiving". The 'everything' is that which God created to be recieved by Christians.

[Quester]

So the Rastafarians are correct then?

The problem with allowing Rastarfarinism is a doctrinal one.

The use of instrumental music is not the same as the introduction of a foreign doctrine.

God didn't create Rastafarianism. However, music (vocal and instrumental) is a gift of God to man (as evidenced in the Old Testament).

The context (which is always important and should be paid attention to) is concerning marriage and food.

Paul broadens the discussion from "food and marriage" when he uses the phrase ... "Everything which God created ...".

If only food and marriage were to be considered, ... Paul wouldn't have used that phrasing.

The key is in the previous verse where it says "which God created to be received with thanksgiving". The 'everything' is that which God created to be recieved by Christians.

You're adding to the text here ... it doesn't say what you are trying to claim that that it says.