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To: Crackingham
“She lived with her lover, so she was a public sinner,” Father Mazzotta said.

Everyone, including this priest, is a public sinner.

So does he believe she's in hell?

9 posted on 07/21/2005 11:57:54 PM PDT by k2blader (Was it wrong to kill Terri Shiavo? YES - 83.8%. FR Opinion Poll.)
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To: k2blader
So does he believe she's in hell?

The key point is that she was a bad example, and it would be a bad example by the priest to "make light" of a sinner.

Not necessarily. But Jesus was quite clear in the Bible when He said that one should "put a yoke about their neck and be cast into the sea" rather than cause innocent people to sin. [Mark 9:42 and Luke 17:2]

There is a famous story of Saint Jean-Marie Vianney (incorrupt priest). A woman came to him about a man who committed suicide. Saint Jean-Marie Vianney replied that her husband had repented before he died. (The man had leapt off a bridge, and Jean Vianney explained that before he hit the water, he had made an act of contritution).

According to the saint, the husband who had committed suicide was having his sins purged before entering heaven. Protestants do not believe in this, but this was also the belief of early Christians (to pray for the dead as was done in the book Malachi -- an Old Testament book in the original Bible).

14 posted on 07/22/2005 12:55:54 AM PDT by topher (God bless our troops and protect them)
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To: k2blader
“She lived with her lover, so she was a public sinner,” Father Mazzotta said.

Everyone, including this priest, is a public sinner.

Not that it matters, since on principle you have a problem with everything the Catholic Church does, but you a) misunderstand what public sin is and b) are missing the rest of the point. Public sin is things like being an out of the closet practicing homosexual who basically advertises their sin unashamedly. Of course everyone is a sinner, but not everyone is a public sinner. I sin, but how many have you witnessed?

Also, the kicker here is the idea of unrepentant sin, not public sin. A woman co-habitating with a man is living in a state of sin. If she's unreprentant than she is living in brazen opposition to Our Lord's teaching. The priest must deny her a Catholic funeral. Just the same as if she were a Rainbow Sash gay activist trying to accept the Eucharist.

Are there many sinners who do wind up receiving the Eucharist or a Catholic funeral? Yes. But it's not as if the priest can discern who has sin on his conscience or not. But a public, unrepentant sinner who advertised their sin proudly? That's pretty obvious. So does he believe she's in hell?
42 posted on 07/22/2005 4:49:03 AM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: k2blader
Everyone, including this priest, is a public sinner.

While everyone is a sinner, the story indicates that the woman never publicly renounced her sinful lifestyle. Thus, she possibly died in a state of sin, though only God would be able to know whether she did or not.

So does he believe she's in hell?

Again, only God would know for sure. Nevertheless, she unrepentantly and publicly performed sinful acts. Thus, she did not merit a Christian burial.

72 posted on 07/22/2005 7:41:17 AM PDT by hispanichoosier
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To: k2blader; little jeremiah
Everyone, including this priest, is a public sinner... So does he believe she's in hell?

Actually, most ordinary, "respectable" people are private sinners. We keep most of our sins well covered-up, don't we? As we present our good-enough-Christian faces to the public?

There is an important difference between public and private. A public sinner --- one who is open, defiant,and unrepentant --- is a dangerous public influence and, by example, can draw many more people into sin, especially the young, impulsive, and vulnerable.

On the other hand, people who fight their habitual sins --- fight, fall, and fight again --- repenting, and humbly seeking the grace to start again --- find that their struggles give hope to others, and are pleasing to God.

No priest could rightly say whether this woman or anybody else was in hell. The Catholic Church canonizes saints, but does not "demonize" ANYBODY. We know that nobody on earth can know for certain whether somebody else chose eternal separation from God.

That is: we know hell exists. It's a hot possibility for anyone who rejects God's love and breaks His commandments. But we can't positively name anybody who's there. This is reflected in the paradox of a traditional Catholic prayer:

O my Jesus, forgive us our sins,
Save us from the fires of hell.
Lead all souls to heaven,
Especially those in most need of Thy mercy.

126 posted on 07/24/2005 11:13:05 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Credo in Unam, Sanctam, Catholicam, et Apostolicam Ecclesiam)
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To: k2blader
Everyone, including this priest, is a public sinner

Thanks for the best reply on the thread.

133 posted on 07/24/2005 7:25:23 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: k2blader
Everyone, including this priest, is a public sinner.

No.

Everyone is a sinner. That's for sure. Not everyone is a "public" sinner, however. I've not read all the posts on this thread so someone may have already explained this point. Ignore this if they have.

The word "public", has a specific meaning in this context. It does not simply mean "done in public view". It means unashamed and unrepentant and because of this, causing great scandal. Proud of being a sinner, if you will.

Not saying I agree with the priest, just want to explain what he means by this phrase.

134 posted on 07/24/2005 8:33:28 PM PDT by marshmallow
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