Restore Hagia Sophia!

jec1ny | 07-25-05 | jec1ny

[Modernman]

You need to do a little reading on the Ottomans. They were perhaps the most vicious empire ever to exist on Earth.

I have read up on the Ottomans. Were they saints? Obviously not. However, they ruled over a multi-ethnic, multi-religious empire. Heck, even the other Muslim powers were generally their enemies. To maintain such an empire, a certain amount of violence and cruelty were necessary.

In a historical sense, the Ottomans were probably about as cruel as the Roman Empire. Pretty average, all things considered.

[GipperGal]

I think that you underestimate the significance of returning Hagia Sophia to the Orthodox Church.

I agree with you 100%. If Hagia Sophia were restored as a place of worship, it would once again become a place of great pilgrimages by both Orthodox Christians and Catholics. It is unquestionably the grandest church in all of Christendom and has always been a place where East meets West. Can anyone forget William Butler Yeats' great poem, "Sailing to Byzantium"? Hagia Sophia is Byzantium. Its "holy wisdom" resonates with the ancient and ageless spiritual longing of all mankind.

O sages standing in God's holy fire
As in the gold mosaic of a wall,
Come from the holy fire, perne in a gyre,
And be the singing-masters of my soul.

[ELS]

Nice find!

[JoeFromSidney]

I also want to emphasize the fact that Hagia Sophia is no longer being used as a mosque.

I was once touring Hagia Sophia in a group that included a couple from Saudi Arabia. The man wanted to pray, and the tour guide told him he couln't pray in the Hagia Sophia, but would have to wait until the group got to the Blue Mosque.

The Orthodox already have a huge church in Istanbul. I don't know whether they'd want to take on another one, since keeping it in shape would be extremely expensive.

[GipperGal]

You slay me, taxman! LOL!

[GipperGal]

I think this argument back and forth about the right of conquerers to keep their spoils of war is overlooking the obvious. The Western European community is now "the conquerer". The Turkish government is approaching the EU hat in hand begging to be admitted into the EU. They are in a position of weakness. If the West wanted to "take" "Constantinople" back from the Turks, we could do it in a month. This petition for the restoration of Hagia Sophia is an exercise in the sort of "peaceful conquest" that comes with economic diplomacy. So this whole argument "they won it fair and square" is irrelevant because we want it back and though we do not want it back enough to kill anyone to take it back, the fact remains that we could take it back any damn time we want to. So, we're giving them the opportunity to hand it over for their own good.

However, I'd also like to address the concerns posed by those who claim, rightly I believe, that Turkey should not be admitted into the EU under any circumstances. Well, that's all part of the beauty of this Hagia Sophia petition. If enough people make this an issue which the EU has to address, then the EU can use it to justifiably denying Turkey admittance because at the end of the day, there's no way the Turkish government is going to restore Hagia Sophia.

[GipperGal]

As long as it is a Christian Church, what difference does it make? I want the Orthodox to have it.

DITTO!

[GipperGal]

They should also be forced to issue an "apology" and pay back rent (with interest).

Why stop at that?

William Wallace: Lower your flags and march straight back to England, stopping at every home to beg forgiveness for a hundred years of theft, rape, and murder. Do this and your men shall live. Do it not, and every one of you will die today. But before we let you leave, your commander must cross that field, present himself before this army, put his head between his legs, and kiss his own arse.
    -Braveheart (Icon Productions, 1995)

[jb6]

ping for later

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

Rolling back the whole barbaric Moslem horde conquest to, say, the backwoods of Mongolia?

Not a bad idea...

[GipperGal]

Rolling back the whole barbaric Moslem horde conquest to, say, the backwoods of Mongolia? Not a bad idea...

Sign me up!

[bourbon]

The Mezquita in Cordoba, Spain was converted to use as a cathedral at one time.

[Coleus]

as a precondition for admission to the EU >>

problem is that I don't agree with the EU. No part of it.

[Coleus]

this is the problem with the EU

 

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With its entry into the European Union, Poland has suffered enormous pressure to accept same-sex “marriage” and the whole homosexual agenda.

[Romish_Papist]

Who will pay if it is turned into a church?

It would not be "turned into a church" because it IS a church. Four minarets and some Arabic writing inside do not change that fact. It should be returned to it's original purpose.

[Romish_Papist]

I think it only fit and proper and just that the Hagia Sophia be given to us Catholics as our church in Istanbul. As you can see by my name, I am a Papist 100 percent. That said, the Hagia Sophia belongs to the Orthodox if anyone. If they did not want it, (and how could they not?) then I could see the Catholic Church taking it, but not before the Orthodox get the opportunity.

[Romish_Papist]

Count me in.

[GipperGal]

A knight of Malta no less!

[muawiyah]

The backwoods of Mongolia are Buddhist.

Not sure what you would accomplish there.

[muawiyah]

The "original purpose" of Hagia Sofia was as a rather large chapel for the use of the Eastern Emperor, his family, and the various titled nobles he allowed to enter. He also kept the Patriarch there ~

You got a lot of work laid out for yourself if you really do want to put the building back into service ~ first you've gotta' recreate the Byzantine Empire, find an emperor, find the titled nobles, etc.

I think those are foolish errands.

Just give the thing to a Southern Baptist preacher and he'll have it filled every Sunday, 2 or 3 times.