Replies

Dominick

The question I always pose to those who throw the "schism" thing around is as follows, and I note you have placed much emphasis on the Bishops from another thread, is as follows:

If the Pope or for that matter tomorrow told you that he (she? soon to be?) told you to that Buddah had much to offer and as at Fatima where JPII allowed the Hindus to worship, your diocese as well as most other dioceses except for maybe 10% of the church's (which will still allow your Novus Ordo Mass but with "modifications") and you were to start incorporating some of the ways hindus, etc worship into your liturgy (and the Bishop can do what they want as we all know)...what would you do?

That is the same question that many Traditional Catholics were faced with after Vatican II and in the past 40 years. We have been told that we must worship like Protestants, only we are still going to call ourselves Catholics. No-you may have been able to sell that "obedience" line to the cafeteria catholics and the Kerry supporters who are Catholics (some 50% of catholics voted for the Pro abortion Kerry as well as Clinton). But it does not work on those that are real "Catholics" as handed down from the Apostles.

If the Pope or for that matter tomorrow told you that he (she? soon to be?)

Not possible to ordain women. This is a non issue. Don't distract from the issue.

told you to that Buddah had much to offer

Once again we have a dearth of infallible documents that state Buddhism in not a salvific faith. We also have a statement from John Paul that Jesus is the only way to Salvation. Again, this is a non-issue.

and as at Fatima where JPII allowed the Hindus to worship,

Actually nobody allowed them to worship. The local Ordinary invited some Hindi people to come to a Church, and explained Fatima and our lady to them. He invited them to lay flowers to an Image of our Lady, as most Catholic Children do from time immemorial. John Paul II made an inquiry into this event, but in no way was contacted before hand. I think someone has been feeding you misinformation.

your diocese as well as most other dioceses except for maybe 10% of the church's (which will still allow your Novus Ordo Mass but with "modifications")

If you purpost to be Catholic, then it is our Novus Ordo. The GIRM provides instructions in order to better follow the Roman Rite Mass.

and you were to start incorporating some of the ways hindus, etc worship into your liturgy (and the Bishop can do what they want as we all know)...what would you do?

Since none of this is possible, as the objections and straw man argument's you put forth state, then I guess I can't answer you. It would be like asking you if gravity reversed and the Earth pushed everything away, then what would I do?

With the authority of the CHurch, the Holy See has made it clear what a schismatic act is. Clearly, if you decide the Mass is invalid unless you follow a narrowly concocted version of the Mass, as stated by schismatic Bishops, then you fall into schism. It isn't my job to tell you that you are in schism. I know what a schismatic act is, and by telling people that the Holy See has fallen away from the Faith, you declare to everyone that, according to then Cardinal Ratzinger's formula, you side with schismatics.

That is the same question that many Traditional Catholics were faced with after Vatican II and in the past 40 years. We have been told that we must worship like Protestants, only we are still going to call ourselves Catholics

You shouldn't include yourself in the Catholic camp, if you hold that the Holy See is no longer following God. I am a Catholic, and I have the privilege because I follow what Christ's Vicar teaches me about God, and the way I should worship Him.

You miss a big point here, the members of the SSPX are a Protestant movement as they attack the Pope, and Christ himself who put the Pope in the position. The Pope has the ability to singularly change the implementation of the Catholic faith, in accordance with the original deposit of Faith. Nothing in that deposit said anything about the Tridentine Mass or Novus Ordo. If it did, we would be using the Divine Liturgy which is much much older than Trent. Nothing in it said anyhting about what HDO we should have, those details are left to the Pope to decide for the benefit of the Faithful.

To say the Pope can't change what is in his power to change for the good of the Church, is to attack Christ's Authority itself.

No-you may have been able to sell that "obedience" line to the cafeteria catholics and the Kerry supporters who are Catholics (...) But it does not work on those that are real "Catholics" as handed down from the Apostles.

Thats is correct, the man who sits in Peter's Chair. I follow him, and the CINO people like Kerry and neo-Protestants like the SSPX, do not.