Well I'm glad these people aren't Catholic.:
Posted on 12/06/2005 3:32:33 PM PST by franky
This Christmas, no prayers will be said in several megachurches around the country. Even though the holiday falls this year on a Sunday, when churches normally host thousands for worship, pastors are canceling services, anticipating low attendance on what they call a family day.
Critics within the evangelical community, more accustomed to doing battle with department stores and public schools over keeping religion in Christmas, are stunned by the shutdown.
It is almost unheard of for a Christian church to cancel services on a Sunday, and opponents of the closures are accusing these congregations of bowing to secular culture.
"This is a consumer mentality at work: `Let's not impose the church on people. Let's not make church in any way inconvenient,'" said David Wells, professor of history and systematic theology at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, a leading evangelical school in Hamilton, Mass. "I think what this does is feed into the individualism that is found throughout American culture, where everyone does their own thing." The churches closing on Christmas plan multiple services in the days leading up to the holiday, including on Christmas Eve. Most normally do not hold Christmas Day services, preferring instead to mark the holiday in the days and night before. However, Sunday worship has been a Christian practice since ancient times.
Cally Parkinson, a spokeswoman for Willow Creek Community Church in South Barrington, Ill., said church leaders decided that organizing services on a Christmas Sunday would not be the most effective use of staff and volunteer resources. The last time Christmas fell on a Sunday was 1994, and only a small number of people showed up to pray, she said.
"If our target and our mission is to reach the unchurched, basically the people who don't go to church, how likely is it that they'll be going to church on Christmas morning?" she said. Among the other megachurches closing on Christmas Day are Southland Christian Church in Nicholasville, Ky., near Lexington, and Fellowship Church in Grapevine, Texas, outside of Dallas. North Point Community Church in Alpharetta, Ga., outside of Atlanta, said on its Web site that no services will be held on Christmas Day or New Year's Day, which also falls on a Sunday. A spokesman for North Point did not respond to requests for comment.
The closures stand in stark contrast to Roman Catholic parishes, which will see some of their largest crowds of the year on Christmas, and mainline Protestant congregations such as the Episcopal, Methodist and Lutheran churches, where Sunday services are rarely if ever canceled.
Cindy Willison, a spokeswoman for the evangelical Southland Christian Church, said at least 500 volunteers are needed, along with staff, to run Sunday services for the estimated 8,000 people who usually attend. She said many of the volunteers appreciate the chance to spend Christmas with their families instead of working, although she said a few church members complained.
"If we weren't having services at all, I would probably tend to feel that we were too accommodating to the secular viewpoint, but we're having multiple services on Saturday and an additional service Friday night," Willison said. "We believe that you worship every day of the week, not just on a weekend, and you don't have to be in a church building to worship."
Troy Page, a spokesman for Fellowship Church, said the congregation was hardly shirking its religious obligations. Fellowship will hold 21 services in four locations in the days leading up to the holiday. Last year, more than 30,000 worshippers participated. "Doing them early allows you to reach people who may be leaving town Friday," Page said.
These megachurches are not alone in adjusting Sunday worship to accommodate families on Christmas. But most other congregations are scaling back services instead of closing their doors.
First Baptist Church in Daytona Beach, Fla., led by the Rev. Bobby Welch, president of the Southern Baptist Convention, will hold one service instead of the usual two. New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colo., led by the Rev. Ted Haggard, president of the National Association of Evangelicals, will hold one Sunday service instead of the typical three.
SD
When did G-d change the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday?
b'shem Y'shua
God rested on the "seventh" day. The "Sabbath" was not established until the Exodus. Moreover, Christ very publicly neutered many of the Sabbath regulations that the Pharisees burdened the people with, so the issue of "what day is the Sabbath" is only relevant if one is clinging to the Mosaic Law.
The earliest known references to "Sunday" worship go back to around 50 A.D., when Christians were being persecuted in the Holy Land and it was expedient to worship on a day when there would be less conflict with Sabbath-worshiping Jewish folk.
Now, the New Testament never says that Christ was Resurrected on "Sunday", but on "the first day of the week", which IS Sunday. "The first day of the week" is also interpreted as the first day of the "New Jerusalem; the new Creation". The Catholic Catechism refers to the Resurrection as a kind of "eighth day" of Creation.
It's also important to point out that when Hadrian sacked Jerusalem in 135 A.D., he outlawed Sabbath worship. Thus, Jewish Christians in Jerusalem began worshipping on Sundays en masse.
Justin Martyr, 150 A.D.
"On Sunday, we meet to celebrate the Lord’s supper and read the Gospels and Sacred Scripture, the first day on which God changed darkness, and made the world, and on which Christ rose from the dead."
Constantine, 321 A.D., the "Sunday Decree"
"All judges and city people and the craftsmen shall rest upon the venerable Day of the Sun. Country people, however, may freely attend to the cultivation of the fields, because it frequently happens that no other days are better adapted for planting the grain in the furrows or the vines in trenches. So that the advantage given by heavenly providence may not for the occasion of a short time perish."
Catechism of the Catholic Church
The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that the ten commandments are "fundamentally immutable" (no. 2072). However, the Church considers the Sabbath to have two aspects: an essential part to worship the Lord on one day per week and a ceremonial part as to the exact day.
(http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9902fea1.asp)
Ps. 118:8 It is better to take refuge in the LORD than to trust in man.
Ps. 118:9 It is better to take refuge in the LORD than to trust in princes.
b'shem Y'shua
"19 And I will give to thee [Peter] the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven."
Is it okay to trust Peter?
By merely reading, the Bible, you are trusting in the men who decided the canon (who were, of course, guided by the Holy Spirit, as guaranteed by Christ)
This is just silly now. Maybe you should read the Old Testament to determine the context of this commandment...
Hint: it has to do with worshiping pagan gods like Baal and crafting images of golden calves as Moses was receving the Ten Commandments. An image of the Blessed Virgin Mary is not an invitation to worship her, no matter how many times you stomp your feet and insist. God is glorified in His children as you are by yours. Recognizing the holiest of Christians (the saints) is not idol worship. They are reflections of God, not man, thus, they glorify the Father, not the subject.
I don't read it that way. I bow to no statute or relic whether it be a representation of things in heaven or on the earth.
Recognizing the holiest of Christians (the saints) is not idol worship.
How can you "recognize" them? Nobody knows what any of them looked like. For all you know Mary was a 4 foot tall hunchback, so it is silly to make representations of her which look like petite dime store mannequins and then bow before them. The bible deliberately made no references to the physical appearance of either Jesus or Mary and I believe that this was because of man's tendency to make physical representations of their gods and then bow before them. We are told to worship in spirit. We can't see spirits.
2Co. 4:1 Therefore, since through God’s mercy we have this ministry, we do not lose heart.
2Co. 4:2 Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do
not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the
contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend
ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.
2Co. 4:3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing.
2Co. 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so
that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of
Christ, who is the image of God.
2Co. 4:5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord,
and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake.
b'shem Y'shua
No disrespect intended, but I'm not sure what your point is with these passages.
Then how did Peter, James, and John see Moses and Elijah at the Transfiguration?
R4E>"19 And I will give to thee [Peter] the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven."
Is it okay to trust Peter? 185 posted on 12/09/2005 11:00:23 AM MST by Rutles4Ever
You are taking a great leap of faith to trust a mere man Peter.
Membership in any corporation will not bring you salvation.
Only the infusing of the Ruach haKodesh and
an intimate personal relationship with Y'shua will provide Salvation.
b'shem Y'shua
So you interpret the Bible for yourself? Catholics have a unified belief set down in the Catechism, unchanged since the birth of the Church on Pentecost Sunday.
I bow to no statute or relic
I don't "bow" to any statues, either, anymore than I bow to a photograph of a departed loved one which I may find great comfort to behold.
How can you "recognize" them? Nobody knows what any of them looked like.
You really have a problem with context, and it goes beyond the Bible. To "recognize" someone in the context of what I said doesn't mean "to physically identify". It means to affirm that we can look to the saints as examples of mere mortals who had heroic holiness in spite of all their trials and tribulations.
Jesus obviously trusted him, enough so to guarantee that his decisions would be the will of heaven, as well. Of course it's not JUST Peter, but the Holy Spirit acting THROUGH Peter. Nonetheless, Christ chose to build His church through mere mortals. The guarantee of Truth is explicitly given to Peter.
Membership in any corporation will not bring you salvation.
Then you reject the churches (with defined heirarchy, BTW) as established by St. Timothy and St. Paul and James the Apostle?
Only the infusing of the Ruach haKodesh and an intimate personal relationship with Y'shua will provide Salvation.
That's not biblical. We are all parts of "one body", by the by. The body is the ULTIMATE corporation. Was St. Paul writing in abject heresy?
R4E>That's not biblical
Sorry!
I pray Abba will select you to be given to Y'shua for salvation.
I suggest a study of Romans 8 and Ephesians 1
b'shem Y'shua
If the Catechism has remained unchanged since Pentecost Sunday, then everything that is in the Catechism must have been laid down before Luke wrote the book of acts. Funny, I don't find any references to Mary veneration or statues or relics or rosaries or veneration of saints or purgatory in the book of acts or in the early writings of the Apostles found in the cannon of scripture.
Maybe Luke didn't have access to the official catechism when he penned the Book of Acts.
This is like talking to a brick wall. Catholics do not BOW DOWN before statues. What part of this do you not understand?
This statue business crept into the Catholic Church long after the Apostles had passed on and was just one more step on the road to the need for the reformation.
Wrong again. Veneration of saints began in the Catacombs, when images and symbols representing various Christian martyrs marked tomb sites where people would pray.
If the Catechism has remained unchanged since Pentecost Sunday,
Again, context-deficiency syndrome. The Catechism is a documentation of the same Truth that existed on Pentecost Sunday before a single word of the New Testament was laid to papyrus. The Truth doesn't change unless Martin Luther says so, apparently. It's irrelevant when the New Testament was written. The content is the immovable Truth which existed before the earth was even created.
Funny, I don't find any references to Mary veneration or statues or relics or rosaries or veneration of saints or purgatory in the book of acts or in the early writings of the Apostles found in the cannon of scripture.
Funny, I don't see any reference to Trinities or schisms or reformations, either. December 25th? Not biblical --- Tradition. Sunday services? Not biblical --- Tradition. Altar calls? Not biblical. Declaring Jesus as your personal saviour? Not biblical. Sola Scriptura? Utterly, completely unbiblical. Faith alone? Utterly, totally, unbiblical.
Mary: "All nations will call me blessed..." Purgatory: Directly implied by Jesus, "every last penny will be repaid", and directly referred to in prayers for the dead in Maccabees 2, which Luther removed because it directly threatened his heresy against Purgatory.
Maybe Luke didn't have access to the official catechism when he penned the Book of Acts.
Of course he didn't. The catechism reflects the works of biblical authors and oral tradition passed down by the Apostles and Church Fathers from generation to generation.
I pray Abba will select you to be given to Y'shua for salvation.
I was "selected" (whatever you mean by that) when I was an infant, at my Baptism. I suggest a study of the Catholic Catechism. The Truth will set you free.
It's a shame that only a portion of Scripture is truth to you. It's the same mistake made the world over by Protestants who cling to one or two verses of the Bible and negate any other Divinely revealed truth that contradicts whatever life-raft they're sailing in.
If you don't eat the entirety of the scroll, you don't have Truth, but an inadequate and erroneous view of salvation history.
Well I'm glad these people aren't Catholic.:
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.