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To: jo kus; Forest Keeper
That is EXACTLY my argument, Harley... I detect a contradiction above...

You've misunderstood my point. I do not believe that Christians should be breaking laws just because they "feel" what the government is doing is wrong. If abortion is the law, God will judge that nation. If I go in and disobey the law, destroying abortion clinic equipment, then God will judge me. I'm supposed to be His light to proper behavior and this would not be proper behavior. If the government passed a law tomorrow that said Christians could not meet; then I would say that a Christian should do what their heart tells them. However, if the government declared that Islam was the only official religion and that we have to pray to Mecca 5 times a day, I think that would cross the line.

We can legitimately protest for those things we feel strongly about; but I wonder if we understand that the people we're "In your face..." today over a particular issue are the same people we may wish to share the gospel with tomorrow?

12,876 posted on 09/21/2006 1:03:24 PM PDT by HarleyD ("Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures" Luke 24:45)
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To: HarleyD
abortion is the law, God will judge that nation. If I go in and disobey the law, destroying abortion clinic equipment, then God will judge me.

First of all, God's revelation is that He judges individuals and that we are not held responsible for our ancestors. Secondly, I am DEFINITELY not saying to destroy equipment. I am calling for civil disobedience against laws that we Christians deem as against God's Law. I certainly am not saying we are to sin - "the ends do not justify the means" is a Catholic teaching.

If the government passed a law tomorrow that said Christians could not meet; then I would say that a Christian should do what their heart tells them. However, if the government declared that Islam was the only official religion and that we have to pray to Mecca 5 times a day, I think that would cross the line.

In either case, we are to obey God's Laws, not man's. In both cases, man's law breaks God's Laws and disobeying man's law is not (in either case) against God's Law. In both cases, we are to hold to God's Law because there is a clear choice of following one or the other.

We can legitimately protest for those things we feel strongly about; but I wonder if we understand that the people we're "In your face..." today over a particular issue are the same people we may wish to share the gospel with tomorrow?

Tertullian said that the blood of the Martyrs is the seed of the Church. That is the point of being a martyr or a confessor. Others are SUPPOSED to see us taking a principled stand in defense of God's Laws. Whenever we reject man's law, we do it non-violently and "meekly" - those who burn abortion clinics are radicals that give non-Christians the wrong impression.

This all is quite interesting, because Scripture does relate without condemning both non-violent and violent response to those who attempt to destroy our faith. I find this highlighted especially in the books of Maccabees. The first book relates and praises active resistance to Hellenistic influences on Judaism, while the second book relates and praises passive resistance - martyrs and such. I think there can be a time for both. As you said, we must discern. I believe the NT condones non-violent disobedience - but their is the whole idea of Just War...

Regards

12,878 posted on 09/22/2006 5:50:18 AM PDT by jo kus (Humility is present when one debases oneself without being obliged to do so- St.Chrysostom; Phil 2:8)
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