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To: annalex; kosta50; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock
Can you elaborate why your understanding of the scripture is superior to the understanding of the Church hierarchy, who, after all, follow two millenia of tradition in doing, as an all-consuming vocation, the same thing you are doing individually?

You put your faith in the infallibility of the Church. Contrary to what is often purported the Church has historically made some errors. (e.g. Did it ever return the money for the indulgences people erroneously purchased?) How do you know that what is touted as Church doctrine today won't be changed 50 years from now?

We would simply state that although the Church hierarchy is fallible, the word of God is infallible-it never changes. People can misinterpret what is in God's word but it doesn't make it incomplete. It is the same as it has been for thousands of years.

This position is consistent with the early church fathers who themselves determined what was inspired and what wasn't inspired writings. They made a distinction and referred back to scripture-not to other church fathers. Today's Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic Church makes no distinction between writings.

I would suggest these views of the Church hierarchy being infallible are at odds with what the church fathers original views were.

64 posted on 01/02/2006 2:06:40 PM PST by HarleyD ("Command what you will and give what you command." - Augustine's Prayer)
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To: HarleyD; annalex; kosta50; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock

"You put your faith in the infallibility of the Church."

I can't speak for Dr. E and Gamecock, but I think its safe to say that Kosta and Alex do, as do I.

"Contrary to what is often purported the Church has historically made some errors. (e.g. Did it ever return the money for the indulgences people erroneously purchased?)"

As Kosta pointed out, particular churches within The Church have erred. Even +JPII admitted that. The Church has never erred.

"How do you know that what is touted as Church doctrine today won't be changed 50 years from now?"

Easy, Orthodoxy hasn't changed its doctrine and dogmas since the 7th Ecumenical Council. Without a Great Council of The Church, there will be no change in the future.

"...the word of God is infallible-it never changes." What does "the word of God is infallible" mean?

"This position is consistent with the early church fathers who themselves determined what was inspired and what wasn't inspired writings. They made a distinction and referred back to scripture-not to other church fathers."

The Fathers constantly referred to each others writings, Harley. Where did you get this idea?

"I would suggest these views of the Church hierarchy being infallible are at odds with what the church fathers original views were."

Harley, no one believes the hierarchy are infallible. The Latin Church believes that under certain very narrow circumstances the Pope is infallible. Orthodoxy doesn't accept that at all.


"


65 posted on 01/02/2006 2:27:27 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: HarleyD
Today's Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic Church makes no distinction between writings.

Speaking for the Catholics (my EO brothers can speak for themselves) if you mean that we make no distinction between the writings of the Fathers and Sacred Scripture, you're full of baloney.

Scripture is inspired. Every word of it is God-breathed and -- rightly understood -- says exactly what God wished to be said.

Some Patristic teachings (e.g., the dogmatic canons of ecumenical councils) are infallible, meaning that they are protected from teaching heresy. That is a much weaker claim than inspiration.

Most Patristic writings are neither inspired nor infallible, but they are a valuable window into the mind of the Church in a past age.

Read Dei Verbum sometime, instead of making stuff like this up as you go.

71 posted on 01/02/2006 2:53:20 PM PST by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: HarleyD; Kolokotronis

I have nothing to add or subtract from Kolokotronis's excellent posts in response to you.


90 posted on 01/02/2006 3:43:09 PM PST by annalex
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To: HarleyD
How do you know that what is touted as Church doctrine today won't be changed 50 years from now?
because it doesn't and it won't.

358 posted on 01/04/2006 8:56:54 PM PST by Cronos (Never forget 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia!)
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