And what the heck are you doing trying desperately to show the existence of a non-existent purgatory with non-existent scriptures to the point where you claim inane stuff like "souls in purgatory have no free will"? Where does that come from?
The literary gymnastics that you have to do to come up with some statement like that and defend it from scriptures is just exhausting to watch. Is the loss of free will in purgatory some kind of punishment?
jokus your problem is that you have no freedom to think for yourself. The church makes a pronouncement about what you are to believe and you then go through all kinds of scriptural gymnastics to prove it to us, who can plainly see that the doctrine espoused by the Catholic church is simply not scriptural at all. From praying to the dead, the bowing before statutes, from the physical (or accidental if your prefer) presence, to the rosary, to last rites, whatever, you get your marching orders from the Pope and then you twist the scriptures to make it seem scriptural to those who are too ignoraant to see what you are doing.
So don't make me laugh with your accusation that it is "Protestants as usual" who are twisting the scriptures to get what they want. It is Catholics who are in desperate need to find some scriptural basis for the unbiblical doctrines and practices that they believe. And it is Catholics who place the scriptures in a low position underneath the pronouncements of Popes and the traditions of men. So where the scripture clearly contradicts the declarations of the church, your obligation as a catholic is to follow the declarations of the church or be a heretic. And when the church later changes its mind, you are there with them. You've got no place else to go. Your loyalty is to those men who claim to hold the "keys" whether they do or not.
So don't try to accuse the Protestants on this forum of "twisting" the scripture to get what we want. Those you accuse hold the scriptures to a much higher standard than you. Your accusation is laughable.
I made you laugh? Perhaps before you get upset, I ask you to consider the verse in question presented by blue-duncan and tell me if I had a right to refute his interpretation...
BD wrote : Paul says in 2 Cor. 5:8 that when we die (absent from the body) we will be present with the Lord, not waiting in some way station.
I responded (causing to laugh, no doubt) : "As usual, Protestants twist Scriptures to try to get it to say what they want... Paul doesn't say what you claim, he says he desires to be with Christ in heaven than here on earth!"
The Bible, which I quoted, says : "We are confident, [I say], and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." 2 Cor 5:8
Now tell me, Marlowe, does this verse say anything more than "I prefer to be with the Lord absent the body (in heaven)"? Paul says he prefers to be in heaven. It says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about the events that occur after our death, or whether there is or is not a Purgatory. This is a twisting of Scriptures that any thinking person can readily see.
Sorry if I tweaked your button, but before you presume that I don't know how to think, perhaps you should, for yourself, look at the verse in question.
Catholics are not in desperate need for anything but the grace of God. We don't need to "proof-text" our beliefs from the Scriptures, as Apostolic Tradition and Scripture come from the same source. They merely cannot contradict - which they don't. But it is not our belief, nor the Bible, that the Bible alone is the sole source of our faith. THAT, my friend, is NOT found in Scriptures. Perhaps you should practice what you preach by NOT following a "doctrine" that is nowhere in Scriptures.
Regards
LOL. Don't you remember? "'Free will' is a "gift from God." /sarcasm
"Furthermore, I have the comfortable certainty that I please God, not by reason of the merit of my works, but by reason of His merciful favour promised to me; so that, if I work too little, or badly, He does not impute it to me, but with fatherly compassion pardons me and makes me better. This is the glorying of all the saints in their God." -- Martin Luther, "Bondage of the Will" -- (xviii) Of the comfort of knowing that salvation does not depend on free-will' (783)"I frankly confess that, for myself, even if it could be, I should not want 'free-will' to be given me, nor anything to be left in my own hands to enable me to endeavour after salvation; not merely because in face of so many dangers, and adversities, and assaults of devils, I could not stand my ground and hold fast my 'free-will' (for one devil is stronger than all men, and on these terms no man could be saved) ; but because, even were there no dangers, adversities, or devils, I should still be forced to labour with no guarantee of success, and to beat my fists at the air. If I lived and worked to all eternity, my conscience would never reach comfortable certainty as to how much it must do to satisfy God, Whatever work I had done, there would still be a nagging doubt' as to whether it pleased God, or whether He required something more. The experience of all who seek righteousness by works proves that; and I learned it well enough myself over a period of many years, to my own great hurt. But now that God has taken my salvation out of the control of my own will, and put it under the control of His, and promised to save me, not according to my working or running, but according to His own grace and mercy, I have the comfort¬able certainty that He is faithful and will not lie to me, and that He is also great and powerful, so that no devils or opposition can break Him or pluck me from Him. `No one,´ He says, `shall pluck them out of my hand, because my Father which gave them me is greater than all´ (John 10.28-29). Thus it is that, if not all, yet some, indeed many, are saved; whereas, by the power of ´free-will´ none at all could be saved, but every one of us would perish.