How Tradition Gave Us the Bible

Assoc of Students at Catholic Colleges ^ | Mark Shea

[NYer]

Mark P. Shea is a convert to the Catholic Church and a popular writer and speaker.  He is the author of Making Senses Out of Scripture:  Reading the Bible as the First Christians Did; By What Authority?: An Evangelical         Discovers Catholic Tradition, and; This is My Body: An Evangelical         Discovers the Real Presence

[AnAmericanMother]

Funny!

My daughter had a NT Bible test today, and last night we were discussing precisely this issue!

Glad that I'm in basic agreement with Mr. Shea . . . hope we're both in agreement with the NT Bible teacher. (Talk about longevity - this man taught ME NT Bible back in 1973, and is still teaching at the same high school, only now he has a doctorate in Theology . . . he was a young whipper snapper when I was in his class! < g >)

[A.A. Cunningham]

Shea needs to discover Consulenti Tibi written by Pope St. Innocent I in 405 AD.

[whispering out loud]

The Catholic church may have canonized the scriptures, but that doesn't necessarily mean that tradition gave us the Bible. Long before the Catholic church existed the Old Testament was canonized by the Jewish faith. Up through the rule of Diocletian the scriptures still existed separately according not to Catholic history but public record. The emperor "Dio" was having the scrolls of the scriptures destroyed along side of the faithful followers of Christ's teachings who had them. With the change of rule to Constantine he embraced Christianity because of his vision of the cross "In this sign conquer". With his acceptance of Christianity came the canonization of the scriptures at which point they were translated into the Latin Vulgate which common men could not read for themselves. So men had to rely solely upon the priest to interpret the scriptures for them, which is by the way against the word itself. "Study to show thyself approved, a workman that need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of God." So if indeed Tradition gave us the scriptures it wasn't necessarily a good thing, because they were for all men to read, not just for the priest, or the select few.

[PetroniusMaximus]

"How Tradition Gave Us the Bible"

Correction: God gave us the Bible.


Question: Did John the Baptist "give" us the Messiah?

[whispering out loud]

the volume of illiteracy if overstated, most of the disciples were not men of means, and yet they had no trouble reading the scriptures. Besides this in the region the primary tongues were Hebrew, Greek, and Chaldea, the original tongues of the scriptures. If someone got ahold of the new translations even if they could read, they were not able to translate the tongue so it was of no use to them. I still don't see the boasting in the canonization of the scriptures.

[A.A. Cunningham]

common men could not read for themselves.

Common men could not read, period.

So men had to rely solely upon the priest to interpret the scriptures for them, which is by the way against the word itself.

Not true.

"And account the longsuffering of our Lord, salvation; as also our most dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, hath written to you: As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction. You therefore, brethren, knowing these things before, take heed, lest being led aside by the error of the unwise, you fall from your own steadfastness." 2 Peter 3:15-17

[PetroniusMaximus]

"I still don't see the boasting in the canonization of the scriptures."

The purpose seems to be that the Scriptures are in competition with the "authority" of the RCC and must be undermined so as to enhance the position of the hierarchy.

I can see not other reason for the centuries-long attack.

[whispering out loud]

Ahhh I understand now, so in this they're saying they have more authority than the scriptures?

[PetroniusMaximus]

"Ahhh I understand now, so in this they're saying they have more authority than the scriptures?"

Something like: "We GAVE 'em to ya, so we have authority over 'em!"


The error, of course, is in their failure to recognize that God gave the Scriptures.

[whispering out loud]

Thank you for the explanation, I never would have expected that anyone would boast more authority than the Word of God.

[P-Marlowe]

"How Tradition Gave Us the Bible"
Correction: God gave us the Bible.

I do find it interesting that Protestant outreach is focused primarily on introducing people to the risen Christ, whereas Catholic outreach is primarily focused on introducing people to the Catholic Church.

So should we bow down and give glory to the Catholic Church because we have the cannon of scripture or should we bow down and give glory to God?

I vote for giving ALL the glory to God.

It is God who gave us his word. At best men have been but mere caretakers of his revealed word. If mankind will not take care to preserve God's word, then God is perfectly capable of writing it on tablets of stone.

[A.A. Cunningham]

Relying on PetroniusMaximus to accurately and truthfully describe the teachings of the Catholic Church is quite foolish.

[PetroniusMaximus]

"Does it never cease to irk you that the Catholic Church IS the Church of the apostles?"

The RCC is the "Church of the Apostles" only in the sense that, like the early disciples, it is continually striving with others over the answer to the question, "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?"

Luke 22:24
"And there was also a strife among them, which of them should be accounted the greatest."