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To: Theophane; kstewskis; patent

Agreed. An "invitation" just ain't gonna do it. I think this is partly out of ill-will on the part of the clergy, control mania on the part of the "liturgy committees," and vested interests such as the OPC (Oregon Catholic Press), etc.

However, I think a lot of it is because many priests, even those who might be willing to do all these things, lack the training to be able to do so. They simply don't have any Latin, they have very little knowledge of Catholic music, and they are theologically too weak to be able to explain things to their congregations or fight for such changes. Believe me, they'd have to fight to be able to get the Mass out of the grip of the "Eucharistic ministers" and others who essentially control the liturgy nowadays.

I think he should mandate these changes, but first he should mandate studies for all of the priests in the Church - one year of liturgical Latin with study of the Old Mass to give modern priests a better foundation in tradition, combined with an introduction to chant and Catholic music and art. And he should do it in such a way that any bishop who refuses to obey should have to go out and find himself a job flipping burgers at McDonald's to pay for his retirement.


17 posted on 03/21/2006 2:18:42 AM PST by livius
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To: livius

You do have to keep in mind that there is "invitation" and there is INVITATION, "encourage" and "ENCOURAGE." Church-speak has inflections and tones and bishops are for the most part not tone-deaf. The words don't matter very much, what matters is whether bishops think Benedict XVI really means it or not.

And that will be signaled by deeds, not words. He has made two or three highly eloquent moves in the Curia--demoting the one guy (I forget his name and position) to an embassy in Jordan or somewhere in Nowheresville instead of promoting him to what he thought was his rightful next post in the Curia. In other words, he turfed him out of the Curia. Then he brought in the new guy for the Congregation for Divine Worship--a pro-Latin, pro-Tridentine character. That speaks volumes more than the words in this statement alone. What's crucial now is to see what happens to Sodano who seems to have tried to lead a palace revolution and failed.

The statement on which this thread's responses comment is important because it puts the bishops of the world on notice. They can't say they don't know what Benedict wants them to do. His actions will tell them whether there will be any consequences for not doing it.

Not that Benedict will sack those who don't get with the program. No, it sends signals to their fellow bishops about what Benedict wants and strengthens their hands in the national conferences of bishops where these things get thrashed out. Up to now the efforts by the reform of the reform reformers have been stymied in the NCCB because the block of resisters is about half to two/thirds of the NCCB. But of that half to two-thirds, some are hard core resisters who will never change their tune, others are winnable. All that has to happen is for the halfhearted resisters to see the handwriting on the wall and fold their cards.

Will it happen? I won't hold my breath. But is it impossible? No. So take heart, be en-couraged, and pray.


27 posted on 03/21/2006 6:04:22 AM PST by Dionysiusdecordealcis
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To: livius; Theophane; patent
Believe me, they'd have to fight to be able to get the Mass out of the grip of the "Eucharistic ministers" and others who essentially control the liturgy nowadays.

Isn't that the sorry truth!

I think he should mandate these changes, but first he should mandate studies for all of the priests in the Church - one year of liturgical Latin with study of the Old Mass to give modern priests a better foundation in tradition, combined with an introduction to chant and Catholic music and art.

Very sound, solid, and sensible approach. I hope we see this in the near future. I wonder if today's "current" priests would be required to go back and learn (and/or review) these studies...kind of like "continuing education?"

And he should do it in such a way that any bishop who refuses to obey should have to go out and find himself a job flipping burgers at McDonald's to pay for his retirement.

Love it! LOL

44 posted on 03/21/2006 6:52:28 AM PST by kstewskis ("I don't know what I know, but I know that it's big".....Jerry Fletcher)
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To: livius

I think he should mandate these changes, but first he should mandate studies for all of the priests in the Church - one year of liturgical Latin



Well, part of your suggestions have already been implemented.

Canon 249 of the 1983 Code:
The program for priestly formation is to make provision that the students are not only carefully taught their native language but also that they are well skilled in the Latin language.

Now if we could just open your suggested McDonalds to employ Bishops that can't obey Church law. It would give cafeteria Catholics a place to go.


70 posted on 03/21/2006 9:32:37 AM PST by Hieronymus
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