Posted on 10/21/2006 4:52:03 AM PDT by NYer
Correction. There is not difference in the NT of Catholics and Protestants. The Protestants do not have several OT books which are the Deuterocanonical Books in the Catholic Bible. I don't recall all of them but they were in the Greek version of the OT. Some of the books are Maccabees, Judith, Tobit, and Sirach.
Gutenberg was Catholic. It was his printing press that allowed those who otherwise would not have access to the Bible because of their finances.
It is also important to remember that literacy rates during the Middle Ages and the Reformation were very low. So most faithful relied on preaching and illustrations ( stained glass windows) to learn the stories of the Bible.
How wonderfully you responded to what was nothing more than a personal insult. That shows Christian love more than anything. God Bless you.
I don't know what response you're referring to...
Then he goes and contradicts that by saying these rather egotistical statements:
"And when they had known the grace that was given to me, James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars.......
SEEMED to be pillars? They WERE pillars of the Early Church and were given the honor of being with Jesus during His earthly mission.
But of them who seemed to be some thing, (what they were some time, it is nothing to me, God accepteth not the person of man,) for to me they that seemed to be some thing added nothing.
Whoa! Did he dare say that the Apostles, St. James, St. Peter and St. John had added NOTHING??
For I suppose that I have done nothing less than the great apostles.
They are the ministers of Christ (I speak as one less wise): I AM MORE; in many MORE labours, in prisons MORE frequently, in stripes above measure, in deaths often.
Doesn't sound so humble to me.
Is that why Paul confronted Peter in his hypocrisy concerning the Jews and the Gentiles?
Someone should have confronted St. Paul about his own hypocrisy. He scolded St. Peter for the very SAME thing he did himself. He circumcised St. Timothy out of fear of the Jews!
AND he came to Derbe and Lystra. And behold, there was a certain disciple there named Timothy, the son of a Jewish woman that believed; but his father was a Gentile.
To this man the brethren that were in Lystra and Iconium, gave a good testimony.
Him Paul would have to go along with him: and taking him he circumcised him, because of the Jews who were in those places. For they all knew that his father was a Gentile.
St. Paul admits this:
And I became to the Jews, a Jew, that I might gain the Jews:
To them that are under the law, as if I were under the law, (whereas myself was not under the law,) that I might gain them that were under the law.
And he's got a problem with St. Peter??
Then he seems to break a promise that he made to the Apostles in the Book of Acts:
It hath seemed good to us, being assembled together, to choose out men, and to send them unto you, with our well beloved Barnabas and Paul:
Men that have given their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who themselves also will, by word of mouth, tell you the same things.
For it hath seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us, to lay no further burden upon you than these necessary things:
That you abstain from things sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication; from which things keeping yourselves, you shall do well. Fare ye well.
Well, St. Paul does an interesting little shuffle here.
If any of them that believe not, invite you, and you will be willing to go; eat of any thing that is set before you, asking no question for conscience' sake.
But if any man say: This has been sacrificed to idols, do not eat of it for his sake that told it, and for conscience' sake.
Conscience, I say, not thy own, but the other's. For why is my liberty judged by another man's conscience ?
If I partake with thanksgiving, why am I evil spoken of, for that for which I give thanks ?
Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatsoever else you do, do all to the glory of God.
This can get kind of disturbing considering the words of Jesus Christ in the Apocalypse:
Yet I have a few things against you. You have some people there who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who instructed Balak to put a stumbling block before the Israelites: to eat food sacrificed to idols and to play the harlot.
Yet I hold this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, who teaches and misleads my servants to play the harlot and to eat food sacrificed to idols.
St. Paul is not without a few nicks in his own armor. Like St. Peter, he had his own foibles and flaws.
She was referring to post #46 where you admitted to being a sinner......saved by grace.
Good answer!
I'm sorry....I should have pinged ladyinred also to my post #107.
No, just very experienced in finding the Protestant anti-Catholics who belong to Churches of the Almighty Dollar. Tell me, what affiliation does your "church" have?
Well, Protestants are Catholics that left the Catholic church for one reason or another...But as far as I can see, they're still Catholic...
But you didn't mention that Constantine basically joined your church with the Pagan worshippers of Diana when he took charge...That's the group that worshipped the Queen of Heaven...That's why you celebrate Jesus' birthday on the winter solstace, the worship of the Sun God...
It's a matter of your same history that your church burned as many copies of scripture that didn't line up with your church as they could find...And killing many 'heretics' in the process...
But the fact is, a lot of these groups survived the onslaught by Rome...And they grew and branched out...And they made copy after copy of the scriptures and passed than on, to be copied some more...
And bucketloads of manuscripts survived that were passed on to different groups dating from around 4 AD and for hundreds of years to follow...
These make up the majority of manuscripts that the King James bible was created from...Your church didn't invent, or create, or write the bible I use...There's no connection between my bible and your church...
1Pe 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
1Pe 5:2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
All the elders of the church were instructed to feed the sheep...And if you think it meant supremacy for Peter, look at the next verse...
1Pe 5:3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being examples to the flock.
Well that shot the primacy of Peter to pieces, and anyone after him that thinks they are any more than a sinner in God's church, including any of the so-called 'church fathers' who demand that the followers esteem the bishops more highly than or even equal to the scripture...
That bible will straighten out kinds of mis-understanding...
I'm kinda slow today...But thankyou...Ya know, I'm kind of junk-yard-dog type of person...But I thank God that He saves all kinds of us mongrels...Fortunately, He gives us a little grace from time to time as well...
I realize you weren't speaking to me but I hafta say there seems to some irony in that statement coming from someone who belongs to a church of countless 50 million + dollar temples...
How many of our beautiful churches have the name of the "pastor" plastered all over the front of them or on some massive sign visible from the freeway?
Oh yeah, none.
The "Bible," "community" and "grapevine" "churches" - and all of their incarnations are more often than not just a temple to the ego and pocketbook of the "pastor."
Joel Osteen.
John Hagee.
Jim Bakker.
Hey, they're your non-denominational boys. How many high dollar cars, big homes and neon lights do they have? Cults, all.
1Pe 5:1 Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed,
1Pe 5:2 shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness;
1Pe 5:3 nor yet as lording it over those allotted to your charge, but proving to be examples to the flock.
UC Good question. I'm sure the fixed order is not that critical since they were probably smart enough to put the epistles together, the gospels together, the Hebrew scriptures together in some logical order. But as to whether all or any of the patriarchs had all the scriptures, I don't know. Perhaps a study of their extant writings would indicate what they had, but would also not rule out what they had but just did not quote from.
Act 17:10 The brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. Act 17:11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.
Apparently, they had something more to go on than just "word of mouth".
Gee, how about the teachings of Jesus Christ?
"Lets remove all the teachings of Paul from the NT. what do we have left for doctrine?"
"Gee, how about the teachings of Jesus Christ?"
---- And Paul's Epistles are not the teachings of Jesus Christ??????
As freeper AlaninSA noted to another poster, all the churches that separated from Rome, did so out of ego.
the first churches held that they were carrying on the true traditions of the church universal that had been corrupted by Rome.
Churches? - According to Scripture, Christ wanted us to be one (John 17:22-23). We are all as a Church to be of one mind and to think the same (Philippians 2:2; Romans 15:5). There is only to be one "faith" (Ephesians 4:3-6), not many. For the Church is Christ's Body and Christ only had one Body, not many. Also, since the Church is Christ's Bride (Ephesians 5:29), can Christ be married to more than one wife (essentially a spiritual form of the the sin of polygamy)? No, Christ can only have one wife (i.e., one Church, not many).
Corrrupted by Rome? Such as what? Please back up your accusations with facts.
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