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To: annalex
A Catholic Christian views the Church as his mother. This is related to the notion of the Blessed Virgin Mary being the first Tabernacle of Christ and therefore the first Church, and the fact that we believe her to be our spiritual mother (cf. John 19:27).

Very interesting orientation. But the Catholic church is not the Bride of Christ. All Christians of all types all over the world who are faithful to God and Him whom He sent, and who seek the Kingdom sincerely bearing fruit, some 30 fold, some 60 fold, some 100 fold, are the Bride of Christ.

Matthew 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

I don't see a function for your Mother such as She describes.

(your John cite describes Jesus seeing that His birth mother is to be taken care of.)

125 posted on 11/14/2006 9:34:28 PM PST by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: William Terrell; Quix
All Christians of all types [...] are the Bride of Christ.

The Catholic ecclesiology is as follows. There is no such thing as invisible church. The boundaries of the Church are visibly defined by the sacrament of Baptism. Those who are properly (with water, in the name of the Triune God) baptized are baptized into the Catholic Church. This is because Christ has one bride and one body, and one mother, and either three are the type of Church. If a baby is baptized by a Trinitarian Protestant minister that baby is Catholic and if he dies he goes to heaven, as any sinless Catholic. If the baptized Christian continues the life as Christ commanded, confessed his sins and receives Communion and grows in faith, no matter what he calls himself, he is Catholic. In other words, we don't make the distinction between the universal Church and the Catholic Church, and we reject the unscriptural notion of universal invisible church. By this definition, curiously, there may be more Catholics who call themselves Orthodox than who call themselves Catholic, thanks to the vibrant church life of the Orthodox.

There is no salvation outside of the Church.

Jesus seeing that His birth mother is to be taken care of

Jesus had any other mother? Mary is the Mother of Christ entire, per council of Ephesus. Tell me you are not sneaking in any nestorianism by this strange epithet.

The notion that Mary was provided for as elderly mother at the last possible moment of Christ dying on the Cross is also strange. Do you really think that Christ -- who foretold His death to everyone who'd listen -- neglected to provide for the welfare of His mother in an orderly fashion? The scripture indicates that the relationship is of adoption as much as of elderly care, in other words, not only John takes care of Mary but Mary adopts John. As anything that transpires on the hill of Golgotha, this is a moment pregnant with deep meaning. At least that is how the Catholic church teaches about it.

I do not intend to turn this thread into another generic discussion about Mary or the meaning of the Church Universal, and unless you have specific questions of what the Church teaches on these matters, will not respond to any mariophobic or anticlerical barbs.

I, of course, invite you to continue the discussion on the proper roles of Scripture and Tradition, as is the topic.

126 posted on 11/15/2006 3:12:23 PM PST by annalex
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