 |
Is it because snakes aren't killing as many as in the old days? |
Posted on 11/16/2006 8:01:14 AM PST by Alex Murphy
When the Ted Haggard sex scandal broke, Lexington Herald-Leader religion reporter Frank Lockwood posed an interesting question:
But why is it that many of the biggest names in the Pentecostal movement — over and over again — end up disgracing themselves and the church as a whole?
Now that the daily updates are less dramatic, it will be interesting to see how reporters step back and analyze some of the underlying stories. AP religion writer Rachel Zoll wrote an interesting analysis of whether New Life church will survive the scandal. She notes that big-name preachers are nothing new but what is new is the fact that so many are closely tied to a single church, such as Rick Warren at Saddleback and Joel Osteen at Lakewood Church.
Haggard’s removal as pastor of New Life was swift but Zoll writes that most megachurches have boards stacked with relatives, friends, personal lawyers and others who are reticent to contradict the leader. (For an excellent analysis of how one megachurch handles its oversight, I commend Eric Gorski’s Denver Post piece on Heritage Christian Center.) Zoll delves into one difference between some megachurches and churches with denominational affiliations:
Nearly all megachurches are independent from a denomination — an asset for their flexibility, but a liability when it comes to checks on power. By contrast, mainline Protestant denominations vet clergy credentials and have elaborate systems of church tribunals, similar to civil courts, that discipline errant ministers.
This is an excellent point for discussion, although I’ll note that the vetting of clergy credentials and other checks are not unique to mainline Protestant denominations. One of the main benefits of forming a denomination of likeminded believers is for the training and vetting of clergy.
New Life members must decide whether they wish to belong to a church without the charismatic leader, Zoll writes. She quotes one expert saying the congregation’s emphasis on social groups might save it.
But Randall Balmer, a Barnard College historian of American religion, said megachurches are so wrapped up with their pastor that New Life inevitably has hard times ahead. Without any creed or denominational identity for the church to cling to, attendance will eventually drop by half or more, he predicted.“You have a kind of cult of personality that confuses the faith with a particular individual,” said Balmer, author of “Thy Kingdom Come: How the Religious Right Distorts the Faith and Threatens America.” “I just think it’s very difficult to recover from this sort of thing.”
What a meek subtitle! The thing is that this last point is the most provocative of the piece. And yet this is how her piece ends. It would be interesting to get some response from others. I’m also interested in how his prediction will pan out.
I was suspect at this comment
megachurches are so wrapped up with their pastor.................. Without any creed or denominational identity for the church to cling to...... “You have a kind of cult of personality that confuses the faith
this merely confirmed it
Just another warren bash.....imo, youre trolling the same old tired lure trying to get a rise out of anyone while you puff your chest up in smug satisfaction
Pass my love along to woody, steve, wrigs, and carepub
Discuss the issues all you want but do not make it personal.
CC&E
my apoloies you saw it that way - rather my intent was to identify this as a continual pattern of disruptive behavior
For instance, if you had said "Threads such as these 'spread discord among the brethren' which is an abomination to God according to Proverbs 6." - it would have been a clear condemnation without "making it personal." But accusing another poster of trolling or being puffed up with smug satisfaction is indeed "making it personal."
See the difference?
|
Is it because snakes aren't killing as many as in the old days? |
Statement of FaithHoly Bible: The Holy Bible, and only the Bible, is the authoritative Word of God. It alone is the final authority for determining all doctrinal truths. In its original writing, the Bible is inspired, infallible and inerrant (see Prov. 30:5; Rom. 16:25,26; 2 Tim. 3:16; 2 Pet. 1:20,21).
Trinity: There is one God, eternally existent in three persons: Father, Son (Jesus) and Holy Spirit. These three are coequal and co-eternal (see Gen. 1:26; Isa. 9:6; Matt. 3:16,17; 28:19; Luke 1:35; Heb. 3:7-11; 1 John 5:7).
Jesus Christ: Jesus Christ is God the Son, the second person of the Trinity. On earth, Jesus was 100 percent God and 100 percent man. He is the only man ever to have lived a sinless life. He was born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, performed miracles, died on the cross for humankind and, thus, atoned for our sins through the shedding of His blood. He rose from the dead on the third day according to the Scriptures, ascended to the right hand of the Father, and will return again in power and glory (see Isa. 9:6; John 1:1,14; 20:28; Phil. 2:5,6; 1 Tim. 2:5; 3:16).
Virgin Birth: Jesus Christ was conceived by God the Father, through the Holy Spirit (the third person of the Trinity) in the virgin Mary’s womb; therefore, He is the Son of God (see Isa. 7:14; Matt. 1:18,23-25; Luke 1:27-35).
Redemption: Humanity was created good and upright, but by voluntary transgression, it fell. Humanity’s only hope for redemption is in Jesus Christ, the Son of God (see Gen. 1:26-31; 3:1-7; Rom. 5:12-21).
Regeneration: For anyone to know God, regeneration by the Holy Spirit is absolutely essential (see John 6:44,65).
Salvation: We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ: His death, burial and resurrection. Salvation is a gift from God, not a result of our good works or of any human effort (see Rom. 10:9,10; Acts 16:31; Gal. 2:16; 3:8; Eph. 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; Heb. 9:22).
Repentance: Repentance is the commitment to turn away from sin in every area of our lives and to follow Christ, which allows us to receive His redemption and to be regenerated by the Holy Spirit. Thus, through repentance we receive forgiveness of sins and appropriate salvation (see Acts 2:21; 3:19; 1 John 1:9).
Sanctification: Sanctification is the ongoing process of yielding to God’s Word and His Spirit in order to complete the development of Christ’s character in us. It is through the present ministry of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God that the Christian is enabled to live a godly life (see Rom. 8:29; 12:1,2; 2 Cor. 3:18; 6:14-18; 1 Thess. 4:3; 5:23; 2 Thess. 2:1-3; Heb. 2:11).
Jesus’ Blood: The blood that Jesus Christ shed on the cross of Calvary was sinless and is 100 percent sufficient to cleanse humankind from all sin. Jesus allowed Himself to be punished for both our sinfulness and our sins, enabling all those who believe to be free from the penalty of sin, which is death (see John 1:29; Rom. 3:10-12,23; 5:9; Col. 1:20; 1 John 1:7; Rev. 1:5; 5:9).
Jesus Christ Indwells All Believers: Christians are people who have invited the Lord Jesus Christ to come and live inside them by His Holy Spirit. They relinquish the authority of their lives over to Him, thus making Jesus the Lord of their lives as well as Savior. They put their trust in what Jesus accomplished for them when He died, was buried and rose again from the dead (see John 1:12; 14:17,23; 15:4; Rom. 8:11; Rev. 3:20).
Baptism in the Holy Spirit: Given at Pentecost, the baptism in the Holy Spirit is the promise of the Father. It was sent by Jesus after His Ascension to empower the Church to preach the gospel throughout the whole earth (see Joel 2:28,29; Matt. 3:11; Mark 16:17; Acts 1:5; 2:1-4,17,38,39; 8:14-17; 10:38,44-47; 11:15-17; 19:1-6).
The Gifts of the Holy Spirit: The Holy Spirit is manifested through a variety of spiritual gifts to build and sanctify the Church, demonstrate the validity of the resurrection and confirm the power of the gospel. The lists of these gifts in the Bible are not necessarily exhaustive, and the gifts may occur in various combinations. All believers are commanded to earnestly desire the manifestation of the gifts in their lives. These gifts always operate in harmony with the Scriptures and should never be used in violation of biblical parameters (see Rom. 1:11; 12:4-8; 1 Cor. 12:1-31; 14:1-40; Eph. 4:16; 1 Tim. 4:14; 2 Tim. 1:5-16; Heb. 2:4; 1 Pet. 4:10).
The Church: The Church is the Body of Christ, the habitation of God through the Spirit, with divine appointments for the fulfillment of Jesus’ Great Commission. Every person born of the Spirit is an integral part of the Church as a member of the Body of believers. There is a spiritual unity of all believers in our Lord Jesus Christ (see John 17:11,20-23; Eph. 1:22; 2:19-22; Heb. 12:23).
Two Sacraments:
Water Baptism: Following faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, the new convert is commanded by the Word of God to be baptized in water in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit (see Matt. 28:19; Acts 2:38).4
The Lord’s Supper: A unique time of communion in the presence of God when the elements of bread and grape juice (the body and blood of the Lord Jesus Christ) are taken in remembrance of Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross. (See Matt. 26:26-29; Mark 16:16; Acts 8:12,36-38; 10:47,48; 1 Cor. 10:16; 11:23-26).
Healing of the Sick: Healing of the sick is illustrated in the life and ministry of Jesus, and included in the commission of Jesus to His disciples. It is given as a sign that is to follow believers. It is also a part of Jesus’ work on the cross and one of the gifts of the Spirit (see Ps. 103:2,3; Isa. 53:5; Matt. 8:16,17; Mark 16:17,18; Acts 8:6,7; Rom. 11:29; 1 Cor. 12:9,28; Jas. 5:14-16).
God’s Will for Provision: It is the Father’s will for believers to become whole, healthy and successful in all areas of life. But because of the fall, many may not receive the full benefits of God’s will while on earth. That fact, though, should never prevent all believers from seeking the full benefits of Christ’s provision in order to serve others.
Spiritual (see John 3:3-11; Rom. 10:9,10; 2 Cor. 5:17-21). Mental and emotional (see Isa. 26:3; Rom. 12:2; Phil. 4:7,8; 2 Tim. 1:7; 2:11).
Physical (see Isa. 53:4,5; Matt. 8:17; 1 Pet. 2:24).
Financial (see Deut. 28:1-14; Josh. 1:8; Ps. 34:10; 84:11; Mal. 3:10,11; Luke 6:38; 2 Cor. 9:6-10; Phil. 4:19).Resurrection: Jesus Christ was physically resurrected from the dead in a glorified body three days after His death on the cross. As a result, both the saved and the lost will be resurrected—they that are saved to the resurrection of life, and they that are lost to the resurrection of eternal damnation (see Luke 24:16,36,39; John 2:19-21; 20:26-28; 21:4; Acts 24:15; 1 Cor. 15:42,44; Phil. 1:21-23; 3:21).
Heaven: Heaven is the eternal dwelling place for all believers in the gospel of Jesus Christ (see Matt. 5:3,12,20; 6:20; 19:21; 25:34; John 17:24; 2 Cor. 5:1; Heb. 11:16; 1 Pet. 1:4).
Hell: After living one life on earth, the unbelievers will be judged by God and sent to hell where they will be eternally tormented with the devil and the fallen angels (see Matt. 25:41; Mark 9:43-48; Heb. 9:27; Rev. 14:9-11; 20:12-15; 21:8).
Second Coming: Jesus Christ will physically and visibly return to earth for the second time to establish His kingdom. This will occur at a date undisclosed by the Scriptures (see Matt. 24:30; 26:63,64; Acts 1:9-11; 1 Thess. 4:15-17; 2 Thess. 1:7,8; Rev. 1:7).
I do as a matter of fact and take your correction with an open heart.
Not to justify my action though - but given the history of the grpl on these boards and the ungentlemanly manner the poster has dealt with me in the past, my comments were likely a bit more pointed than I would share with the general audience on these boards, as the tendency has been to disrupt. As you know, many grpl on FR are also mods on other boards, many inhabiting and posting to unchristian sites like clowneposse, comments not only denigrating to freepers, but moderators as well, you included
regardless, I will heed your counsel and wont do it again
Open my eyes that I may see wonderful things in your law.- Psalm 119:18
With all due respect, it's not "making it personal" if it is objectively true.
Who or what is the GRPL? I looked it up through Google, and it came back with Grand Rapids Public Library. I think that isn't what you mean.
Not to justify my action though - but given the history of the grpl on these boards and the ungentlemanly manner the poster has dealt with me in the past, my comments were likely a bit more pointed than I would share with the general audience on these boards, as the tendency has been to disrupt. As you know, many grpl on FR are also mods on other boards, many inhabiting and posting to unchristian sites like clowneposse, comments not only denigrating to freepers, but moderators as well, you included
How is that NOT making it personal, Rev, issuing blanket statements and making implications like this. I happen to be a GRPL member who is a moderator on another site, and who has posted on unchristian sites (though not clownposse). Does that mean everything I post should be assumed to be with the intent of disruption?
I think you're overreacting to the post, Rev.
possibly - when these threads are viewed individually - however as a pattern, its a safe comment to say some are meant to agitate intentionally
How have you been fru ?
Some might be inclined to say the same of the recent "Arminius was a Calvinist" threads:)
How have you been fru ?
Very well, Rev. I'll be even better tomorrow after the Buckeyes finish off that team up north :D
please make me aware of a pattern if you see it
The love of money is what nabs the Pentecostals. Some grab for themselves all that they can, because they are allowed to. Many churches pay salaries, and the pastor is not there to get all that he can, for he is limited. The sky is the limit for many Pentecostals. This is why all of the Pentecostal scandals. So now you know!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.