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To: fox martyr son
John 8:58 Jesus said to them,"Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM." By this statement Jesus affirms his pre-existence and lays claim to the name give to Moses at the burning bussh.

There is nothing special about the 'I am' above.

I 1473 - from the Greek ego {eg-o'} 1) I, me, my

am 1510 - from the Greek eimi {i-mee'} 1) to be, to exist, to happen, to be present

Those very words are spoken by numerous people throughout the NT and guess what. They weren't God either. Instead of trying to force the text to say something that isn't there, why don't you just accept what the text actually says?

Matthew 27:46, Mark 15:34 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Is Jesus asking why he forsook himself?

John 14:28 My Father is greater than I.

God and Jesus are NOT the same entity.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

God and Jesus are NOT the same entity.

Luk 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. 43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.

Are angels stronger than God? There are two wills spoken of in the above verses. God and Jesus are NOT the same entity.

66 posted on 12/04/2006 1:30:20 PM PST by Risha (Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God)
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To: Risha
Old Testament:

Isaiah 48:12 "Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called;
I am He, I am the first, I am also the last.
13 "Surely My hand founded the earth,
And My right hand spread out the heavens;
When I call to them, they stand together.

Note: The speaker makes it abundantly clear that He is God Himself.

14 "Assemble, all of you, and listen!
Who among them has declared these things?
The LORD loves him; he will carry out His good pleasure on Babylon,
And His arm will be against the Chaldeans.
15 "I, even I, have spoken; indeed I have called him,
I have brought him, and He will make his ways successful.
16 "Come near to Me, listen to this:
From the first I have not spoken in secret,
From the time it took place, I was there
And now the Lord GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit."

There you have it: Old Testament Trinity... though not understood fully until Jesus revealed Himself. The speaker is God and yet the Lord God sent Him and His Spirit. This theology is affirmed in the Gospel of John:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.
5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

70 posted on 12/04/2006 1:46:58 PM PST by pgyanke (Gay marriage does to real marriage what counterfeit money does to real money. - Hemogoblin)
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