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To: Youngstown
The gates of hell shall not prevail against Christ's Church. What do you not understand about that? What did Martin Luther, Henry the VIII, John Knox, Calvin or any other Protestant not understand about that. Bad pope, good pope, there is nothing in there that says to separate yourself from the Church because YOU believe the pope is wrong. You continue to worship God in the Church that He provided and work for the fidelity of the Church and the Popes. Plenty of saints who came before you did when they saw the Church and the pope heading in the wrong direction. SSPXers thought that they could leave to effect the change and yet when the change is happening they ask for more.

As I see it, it is their own pride in their own holiness and their own understanding, and their own intelligence. Just as in a marriage that seems not to be salvagable, when you stay and work at it can become a holy union but if you give up and leave because you think you are always right it will end. SSPXers may not have divorced themselves from the Catholic Church but they certainly got a formal separation.

22 posted on 07/09/2007 6:13:15 PM PDT by tiki
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To: Youngstown; tiki
Quoting tiki:

Bad pope, good pope, there is nothing in there that says to separate yourself from the Church because YOU believe the pope is wrong. You continue to worship God in the Church that He provided and work for the fidelity of the Church and the Popes. Plenty of saints who came before you did when they saw the Church and the pope heading in the wrong direction.

Jesus asked St. Francis of Assisi to rebuild His Church. How about reading up on St. Francis? I think he was before Vatican II.

Only in heaven will we begin to comprehend just how much God values each act of obedience. Without it, God can't work with a soul.

32 posted on 07/09/2007 7:35:49 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Illegal aliens do not have Constitutional rights.)
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To: tiki
The gates of hell shall not prevail against Christ's Church. What do you not understand about that?

Of course nothing will prevail against Christ's Church, the question is rather who has LEFT the Church, of whatever rank, and in whatever numbers by formal heresy.

In the examples you mentioned, those who protested were the heretics, in this instance the heretics have usurped power and stayed, corrupted and befouled the Temple.

To be a Catholic one must be baptized and hold the Faith whole and entire. The heresiarchs who have bodly taken command since Vatican 2 are in no way, shape, or form Catholic. They have insitituted a completely new and false faith, and under the guise of all heretics, pretended that it is part of our sacred Patrimony when in reality it is of satan.

Bad pope, good pope, there is nothing in there that says to separate yourself from the Church because YOU believe the pope is wrong.

We are not speaking of a "good pope" or "bad pope", we are speaking of whether this man is Catholic, because if he is not, he is no pope at all.

As I quoted CATHOLIC teaching above, a heretical pope MUST be avoided.

"Cum ex Apostolatus Officio" Apostolic Constitution of Pope Paul IV
"7. (ii) the laity;
shall be permitted at any time to withdraw with impunity from obedience and devotion to those thus promoted or elevated and to avoid them as warlocks, heathens, publicans, and heresiarchs"

St Robert Bellarmine, "De Romano Pontifice", ("On the Roman Pontiff"), liber II, caput 30:

"For, in the first place, it is proven with arguments from authority and from reason that the manifest heretic is "ipso facto" deposed. The argument from authority is based on St. Paul (Titus, c. 3), who orders that the heretic be avoided after two warnings, that is, after showing himself to be manifestly obstinate - which means before any excommunication or judicial sentence. And this is what St. Jerome writes, adding that the other sinners are excluded from the Church by sentence of excommunication, but the heretics exile themselves and separate themselves by their own act from the body of Christ. Now, a Pope who remains Pope cannot be avoided, for how could we be required to avoid our own head? How can we separate ourselves from a member united to us? This principle is most certain. The non-Christian cannot in any way be Pope, as Cajetan himself admits (ib. c. 26). The reason for this is that he cannot be head of what he is not a member; now he who is not a Christian is not a member of the Church, and a manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian (lib. 4, epist. 2), St. Athanasius (Scr. 2 cont. Arian.), St. Augustine (lib. de great. Christ. cap. 20), St. Jerome (contra Lucifer.) and others; therefore the manifest heretic cannot be Pope.

Jus Canonicum by the Rev F X Wernz S.J. and the Rev P Vidal S.J. (1938) Chapter VII
"Indeed, a publicly heretical Pope, who, by the commandment of Christ and the Apostle must even be avoided because of the danger to the Church, must be deprived of his power as almost all admit. But he cannot be deprived by a merely declaratory sentence..."
Wherefore, it must be firmly stated that a heretical Roman Pontiff would by that very fact forfeit his power."

Epistle Of Saint Paul To The Galatians, Chapter 1, Verses 8-9
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema.
9 As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema.

34 posted on 07/09/2007 7:46:55 PM PDT by Youngstown (Venerable Anne Katherine Emmerich: "PRAY FOR THE CHURCH OF DARKNESS TO LEAVE ROME!")
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