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To: Kolokotronis; kosta50; HarleyD
Read this, it may help, FK: http://aggreen.net/beliefs/heaven_hell.html

Thanks very much for the article. I can see by the author's approach that he simply retranslated the words he needed to get the result he wanted. It's the "Only Orthodox scholars know Greek" argument. That's fine.

[from the article:] In Western thought Hell is a location, a place where God punishes the wicked, where they are cut off from God and the Kingdom of Heaven. Yet this concept occurs nowhere in the Bible, and does not exist in the original languages of the Bible.

The following is from a website called Gotquestions.org:

Is hell real? Studies show that over 90% of people in the world believe in a "heaven" while less than 50% believe in an eternal hell. According to the Bible, hell is most definitely real! The punishment of the wicked in hell is as never-ending as the bliss of the righteous in Heaven. The punishment of the wicked dead in hell is described throughout Scripture as "everlasting fire" (Matthew 25:41), "unquenchable fire" (Matthew 3:12), "shame and everlasting contempt" (Daniel 12:2), a place where "their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched" (Mark 9:44-49), a place of "torments" and "flame" (Luke 16:23,24), "everlasting destruction" (2 Thessalonians 1:9), a place of torment with "fire and brimstone" where "the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever" (Revelation 14:10,11), and a "lake of fire and brimstone" where the wicked are "tormented day and night forever and ever" (Revelation 20:10). Jesus Himself indicates that the punishment in hell itself is everlasting - not merely the smoke and flames (Matthew 25:46).

The wicked are forever subject to the fury and the wrath of God in hell. They consciously suffer shame and contempt and the assaults of an accusing conscience -- along with the fiery wrath of an offended deity -- for all of eternity. Even those in hell will acknowledge the perfect justice of God (Psalms 76:10). Those who are in the very real hell will know that their punishment is just and that they alone are to blame (Deuteronomy 32:3-5). Yes, hell is real. Yes, hell is a place of torment and punishment that lasts forever and ever, with no end! Praise God that through Jesus, we can escape this eternal fate (John 3:16,18,36).

The Bible clearly teaches that hell is a place of eternal torment. Even Jesus said so. But of course, if all the words are translated incorrectly, then........ :)

I have to say that I was surprised to see this idea that hell is just some sort of mystical experience and that the damned are really side by side with the saved. That goes against all Biblical teachings I am familiar with concerning Heaven and hell. I don't think I would have guessed it possible for us to be so far apart on something so seemingly basic, but yet important in Christianity.

10,392 posted on 11/04/2007 2:46:31 PM PST by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; HarleyD; kosta50

“I don’t think I would have guessed it possible for us to be so far apart on something so seemingly basic, but yet important in Christianity.”

Believe it, FK. Pretending we believe the same things is one of the most dangerous aspects of the heresy of ecumenism.


10,393 posted on 11/04/2007 2:53:52 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis; kosta50
I must agree with FK that this is one of the most baffling things that I have come across. From you website this writer does a very poor job of explaining the case for hell not exisiting. He states:

Lazarrus is dining at a feast while the rich man is in flaming torment. He is in pain but God is not punishing him??? Quite frankly, does this make any sense???

As FK stated, once again the author's argument is that "Nobody really understand Greek like the Greeks." This is a rather lame excuse. I'm sure there have been several non-Greek scholars throughout the ages that could understand Greek just as I'm sure Martha Stewart could whip up a great Greek dinner.

The author also uses St. Ignatius as if Ignatius was confirming that he did not believe in a hell. What absolute tripe! Here is what St. Ignatius has to say on the subject:

It's pretty bad when people distort not only the word of God but what the fathers had to say on certain matters. Too bad the Internet allows us to verify these claims.

The author never addresses the numerous places where our Lord Jesus talks about the fiery pits of hell and how people will be sent there. The argument that "it's not talked about in the Old Testament." doesn't wash because Christians use the whole canon to get the complete picture-not just the old. The fact that our Lord (not John, James, Peter or Paul) talked about hell more than anything else should confirm the fact there is such a place.

In a way Kolo is right. People wouldn't be so quick to embrace ecumenicalism if the truly understood the differences.

10,444 posted on 11/05/2007 5:07:49 AM PST by HarleyD
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