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To: irishtenor
“Now, let’s take your scenario... a child, totally depraved by his parents, completely ignored by them. Now, suddenly, an adoptive parent takes him, cleans him up, loves him like no one ever has, takes care of him and let’s him live with the parent forever. That is the Lord with those he chose. We (and I am including you in this, because I can see in your nature that you love the Lord)having once been lost, wallowing in the mire of sin, have now been washed with the blood of the Lamb, adopted into the family of God, and will live with him, forever.”

Well.. I think you don’t believe in total depravity of calvinism, because total depravity taught by Calvin teaches that people are by nature not inclined to love .
God created us out of love and for love.He wills us to love.I don’t think you believe that God wills ANYONE to hate?

Dear Brother,your scenario is excellent, because it shows that the adaptive parents followed the will of God “freely”.
God worked in union with the adaptive parents human nature because of their desire follow the will of God.

When we humble ourselves to the will of God(that is always for the purpose of love) We become participants in the love of Jesus Christ

10,396 posted on 11/04/2007 3:42:09 PM PST by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: stfassisi

Oops.
adaptive should read adoptive


10,397 posted on 11/04/2007 3:46:45 PM PST by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: stfassisi

I think you missed the intent of my post. The adoptive parent IS God. It is God who takes us when we are worthless, downtrodden, sinful, and washes us with the blood of the Lamb. Man by himself is totally depraved, with nothing worthy of God. It is only when we are adopted into the family of God do we find ourselves not only clean, but worthy of worshipping God. We can face God unafraid, because he has chosen us to be his children. Rejoice in that.

1 John says that God is love, and no one can love who does not have God. It is God who gives us the love to share with each other. He gives this love to his children. Those who are not his children do not get this love.

You are mistaken, I do believe in the total depravity of man, the same as Calvin did. And I also believe that it is God who saves his own from that depravity. Romans 1 spells it out very thoroughly. God gave them over to their lusts, he allowed it. Some he saved from those lusts. They (you and I and all those God saved) are freed from the ravages of lust, freed from the consequences of sin, freed from slavery to the nature of man.


10,399 posted on 11/04/2007 4:22:56 PM PST by irishtenor (How much good could a Hindu do, if a Hindu could do good?)
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To: stfassisi; irishtenor
Calvin teaches that people are by nature not inclined to love .

No, it wasn't Calvin. I believe it was John who stated:


10,446 posted on 11/05/2007 5:30:16 AM PST by HarleyD
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To: stfassisi
Well.. I think you don’t believe in total depravity of calvinism, because total depravity taught by Calvin teaches that people are by nature not inclined to love .

I suggest that you go learn what Calvinist soteriology actually teaches rather than the gross misrepresentation you presented.

Calvinism believes and teaches exactly what the Scriptures AND Augustine especially taught, which is that the fall of Adam, you know, the doctrine of Original Sin, completely marred the desire of man toward a love of sin and darkness and not of God.

John 3:

19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

10,460 posted on 11/05/2007 4:00:50 PM PST by Missey_Lucy_Goosey
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