Well, I can't possibly top Dr. E. quoting Harley quoting Calvin. That's something you just don't do. :)
Regarding salvation, it depends on your definition of salvation. Are you referring to that past event where you first accepted our Lord as your Savior and repented of your sins? Because we have not yet received the other kind of salvation, our entrance into heaven, which is not yet secured. It is based on hope (and OUR perseverance in Christ!)
Yes, that is what I was referring to, but your use is proper also. We of course disagree on whether salvation can be secured during physical life. I would just add that the Biblical use of the word "hope" includes confidence and surety.
It's more than that, because you admit that we have been given the ability to obey. This cannot happen unless the man is ALSO involved. It cannot be said that we obey anything if God does it all. We certainly cannot take credit for anything, whether natural or supernatural gifts.
I agree with you and Augustine that we are returning the gifts God has given us. It could just be a matter of semantics over what "involved" means. After salvation, we are free to act out God's will, but it must also be in accordance with God's exact plan (which we cannot know). So in that sense we are certainly "involved". We want to obey and God directs how that happens.
LOL. If I might add --
Well, I can't possibly top Dr. E. quoting Harley quoting Calvin quoting Scripture... 8~)
Uh, If you say so... But it doesn't answer my question. Is God's perseverance judged or man's?
Yes, that is what I was referring to, but your use is proper also. We of course disagree on whether salvation can be secured during physical life. I would just add that the Biblical use of the word "hope" includes confidence and surety.
When you mean "salvation secured in this life", I presume you mean heaven. Well, I won't say we can absolutely be certain, but we can have assuredness that as long as we remain in Christ, our hope will not be in vain. I do not feel comfortable with presumption.
After salvation, we are free to act out God's will, but it must also be in accordance with God's exact plan (which we cannot know). So in that sense we are certainly "involved". We want to obey and God directs how that happens
Something like that. But we won't go into the difference of God's time and our time - that has been done already...
Regards