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To: xzins

I understand.

However, the Church Fathers were undoubtedly aware of these inconsistencies as well. Even the Gospels vary somewhat when covering the same story. I will accept the Church’s teachings as to the validity of Scripture.

I do not consider myself able to second guess such as Augustine.


6,863 posted on 09/21/2007 6:47:23 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (V. Angelus Domini nuntiavit Mariae. R. Et concepit de Spiritu Sancto.)
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To: MarkBsnr

The following are all from the previous link I provided. On my shelf, I see a copy of RA Torrey’s, “What the Bible Teaches.” I might tell you that it is good for reading. That does not mean that I think it the equivalent of scripture. I would tell folks that the Maccabees are good for reading, but in the same way as Torrey is good for reading.

Augustine said “If any, even the smallest lie be admitted in the Scriptures, the whole authority of Scripture is presently invalidated and destroyed.” [Epistle xix. Tom. II. P. 14]

As Augustine states of the book of Macabees, “The Jews do not esteem this scripture as the Law and prophets, to which the Lord bears testimony as his witness.” (Contra Gaudent. Epist. Lib. II cap. 23.)

Augustine so shows this in his writings against Cresconius the grammarian: “Not without cause was the canon of the church framed with so salutary a vigilance, that certain books of the prophets and apostles should belong to it.” (Lib. 2. cap. 31); also “Let them shew us their church, not in the rumors of the Africans, but in the injunction of the Law, in the predictions of the prophets, in the songs of the Psalms; that is, in all the canonical authorities of the sacred books.” (De Unit. Eccles. C. 16.)

Augustine said “The calculation of which times is not to be found in the sacred Scriptures which are called canonical, but in others, amongst which are also the books of Maccabees.” So the RCC’s attempt to use Augustine’s quotes concerning their “sacredness” is destroyed by Augustine’s own qualification of the books as other than canonical – which he never retracted.

Maccabees praises suicide. Augustine repudiates this when he says “Nor is it in vain that nowhere in the sacred canonical scriptures do we find any precept or permission to take away our own lives.”

Augustine also argues that Christ never mentions them as his witnesses and shows them as non-canonical.


6,864 posted on 09/21/2007 7:08:04 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain And Proud of It! Those who support the troops will pray for them to WIN!)
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