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To: kosta50; P-Marlowe; xzins; Kolokotronis
If that is your opinion, FK, the you have been deceived. You have not read anything regarding Orthodox doctrine as you claimed you did, because you could not say something so completely off base if you did.

You said THAT I was wrong, but you did not say why. I do not base my opinion on hundreds of hours of pouring through Apostolic documents. I base it on hundreds of hours of reading posts from you guys! :) I thought I was being fair.

I said that in your theology Jesus finished nothing since man has the ultimate power to lose his salvation and win it back again. I know that the Orthodox really don't speak of it in those terms, but the Latins do. So, I said that for you Christ laid the groundwork, but it's up to you to complete the deal. What's incorrect about that?

I have had it explained to me that for you Christ's work on the cross is applied at baptism (usually infant), and of course no one has committed any sins by then. So, it must normally refer to whatever one's version of original sin is. But ALL of you say that future sins are NOT covered by Christ's work. For you that is a separate issue. So, other than original sin, what sins of yours did Christ die to remit? If I sinned by offending you with my post, then did Christ die to forgive that sin? I think you would have to say "no". For that I would have to apologize to you (and I do if I did :) and I would have to confess to a priest and receive absolution for that sin. What has this to do with Jesus on the cross?

I have seen the question asked a hundred times: "do you believe that Jesus died on the cross to pay for all of our sins, past, present, and future?" The answer from your side is always "No".

7,034 posted on 09/23/2007 3:35:16 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; kosta50

“I said that in your theology Jesus finished nothing since man has the ultimate power to lose his salvation and win it back again. I know that the Orthodox really don’t speak of it in those terms, but the Latins do. So, I said that for you Christ laid the groundwork, but it’s up to you to complete the deal. What’s incorrect about that?”

Oh dear; probably you should have spent those hours pouring over Apostolic and patristic documents, FK! Christ finished man’s bondage to death and restored to man what was lost by the Sin of Adam, the potential to become divinized, to actually be a creature in the image and likeness of God. “Taking advantage” of that opportunity is up to us. Its available to everyone...like God’s grace.


7,035 posted on 09/23/2007 3:50:00 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Forest Keeper; P-Marlowe; xzins; Kolokotronis; jo kus; D-fendr; MarkBsnr
I said that in your theology Jesus finished nothing

Sure he did; He freed us from the bondage of death. He made it possible for us to be fully restored in the image and likeness of God (theosis).

His sacrifice applies to all whom are willing to come to Him, follow Him, and imitate Him.

But ALL of you [Catholic/Orthodox] say that future sins are NOT covered by Christ's work

They are, but we must repent of those sins in order for them to be forgiven. That's why we have the sacrament of confession.

If I sinned by offending you with my post, then did Christ die to forgive that sin? I think you would have to say "no".

Your sins are forgiven if you repent of them. Christ did not die on the cross for you to be free to sin, but to become free of sin. Unrepentant sins are not forgiven. Confession is a must.

For that I would have to apologize to you (and I do if I did :) and I would have to confess to a priest and receive absolution for that sin. What has this to do with Jesus on the cross?

Again, repentance is the key. But it seems alien to your mindset that you should repent of your sin in order for it to be forgiven. If you believe your sins are forgiven without repenting of them, then repentance becomes an "empty ritual," which may explain why the Protestants may not have such "guilty conscience," but rather consider themselves righteous in their justification that no amount of wrongdoing can affect.

I have seen the question basked a hundred times: "do you believe that Jesus died on the cross to pay for all of our sins, past, present, and future?" The answer from your side is always "No".

It is "No" if you don't repent.

7,038 posted on 09/23/2007 7:44:53 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Forest Keeper; kosta50
I have seen the question asked a hundred times: "do you believe that Jesus died on the cross to pay for all of our sins, past, present, and future?" The answer from your side is always "No".

Are you sure? I do not recall any Catholic or Othodox saying that. You are confusing "Jesus paying for all of our sins" and "Jesus actions applied to the individual". Jesus died for all sins, past, present and future of ALL men! Not just the self-proclaimed saved. However, it becomes clear that men must repent to apply Christ's work to their own individual self. God offers His salvation freely to all, since He desires all men to be saved. God leads men to repent, God gives men the power to repent. Some do, and some don't. Those that do repent of PAST sins are forgiven - they have Jesus' work applied to their souls. And Jesus CONTINUES to intercede for our sake and the sake of those who have NOT repented yet. IF Christ's sins take away all sins without man's repentance, then why does Jesus intercede TODAY for us?

I am certain this has been said before...

Regards

7,043 posted on 09/23/2007 8:07:03 PM PDT by jo kus
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To: Forest Keeper

Jesus died on the cross to pay for our sins. Yes. That payment is held in reserve until and unless we repent.

But the payment is not made for us specifically for specific sins until we repent of that sin. We get no free pass. Otherwise repentence has no meaning.

But, according to the Reformed, nothing that we do has any meaning. So therefore what significance has repentence in the overall scheme of things except as a meaningless gesture.


7,071 posted on 09/24/2007 6:20:24 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (V. Angelus Domini nuntiavit Mariae. R. Et concepit de Spiritu Sancto.)
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